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Author Topic: 1up: Essential RPGs  (Read 15533 times)
Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #60 on: April 28, 2009, 09:43:57 AM »

I agree with the last few comments.  Breath of Fire 5 should have been on here somewhere, especially over, ugh, FFXII.
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Blace
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« Reply #61 on: April 28, 2009, 12:20:08 PM »

They didn't pick just FFXII, they picked FFXII AND FFX. They said one or the other and gave very good reasons for it. They picked what they considered the best RPGs for each last gen system.
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Eusis
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« Reply #62 on: April 28, 2009, 12:23:57 PM »

Or at the least the best to recommend. Keep that in mind, I may have a personal favorite that I can't easily recommend so instead I'd pick the game I liked that was more accessible, and Dragon Quest V can easily be one of those games. Might be different though if the PS2 had 5 entries, but that had a massive library and anyways the point seems more to recommend games for modern consoles rather than going over RPG essentials period.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #63 on: April 28, 2009, 01:20:17 PM »

They didn't pick just FFXII, they picked FFXII AND FFX. They said one or the other and gave very good reasons for it. They picked what they considered the best RPGs for each last gen system.

Exactly.  I don't consider either to be anywhere close to the "best" on their system, nor are either "essential".  I would consider BoF:DQ at the least essential, if not the best, if only because of the way it turned the genre on it's ear.
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Eusis
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« Reply #64 on: April 28, 2009, 01:35:29 PM »

Exactly.  I don't consider either to be anywhere close to the "best" on their system, nor are either "essential".

How is the biggest JRPG series NOT essential? Especially when X influenced many PS2 games? That's like saying Super Mario Bros. isn't essential, or that the original Star Wars trilogy isn't essential. They may not be favorites, but they're so significant they merit visiting.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #65 on: April 28, 2009, 02:17:09 PM »

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's influential.  Super Mario Brothers revolutionized games as we know them.  Star Wars did things for the Sci-Fi movie genre that we still don't know the entire scope of.  FFX and XII didn't really pull the JRPG genre in any direction or revolutionize anything.  They're not even in the same epoch as SMB or Star Wars.

I just can't accept "popularity" as being a requisite for greatness.
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ChevalierEagle
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« Reply #66 on: April 28, 2009, 04:56:57 PM »

I do wish more games used the battle system of FFXII (yes, i love it, fuck off) and as for FFX, how has been the game influential? Linear RPGs? Not something to be very proud of.
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Ryos
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« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2009, 09:11:25 PM »

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's influential.  Super Mario Brothers revolutionized games as we know them.    FFX and XII didn't really pull the JRPG genre in any direction or revolutionize anything. 

X in particular was ripped off of in all sorts of games trying to cash in on its popularity, including but not limited to the later Shadow Hearts titles and Xenosaga.  Hell, DDS is pretty much X thrown into the SMT universe.  XII has also seemed to have inspired a renaissance in the more limited appearance of random encounters and some games (like the next Magna Carta title) have taken to utilizing a similar combat scheme.  Like it or not both of those games had a lot of influence.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2009, 09:31:17 PM »

How did any of those games mimic FFX in a way that FFX didn't mimic some other game in?
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Ryos
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« Reply #69 on: April 29, 2009, 03:17:48 AM »

Ultra linearity and narrative style are the most obvious ways games copied X.  Not sure why I forgot but Magna Carta: ToB copied both from X.  Then there are Growlanser V and VI that yank their battle systems right from XII.  Anyway, I am by no means saying they were wholly original games but by any means a lot of games have tried to copy the formulas X and XII used to cash in on their sales.  Not to mention independent games, which other than the Suikoden series seem to be inspired quite a bit by X - case and point Charles Barkley's Shut Up and Jam Gaiden, where you can play the game in Al Bhed.
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« Reply #70 on: April 29, 2009, 05:21:40 AM »

Oh come on, when FFX was released it was mindblowing. That's like saying that FFVII isn't an essential PSone game.
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« Reply #71 on: April 29, 2009, 08:16:03 AM »

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's influential.  Super Mario Brothers revolutionized games as we know them.  Star Wars did things for the Sci-Fi movie genre that we still don't know the entire scope of.  FFX and XII didn't really pull the JRPG genre in any direction or revolutionize anything.  They're not even in the same epoch as SMB or Star Wars.

I just can't accept "popularity" as being a requisite for greatness.

It's hard to be influential if there's not an audience to be influenced by the material.

I like Dragon Quarter.  A lot.  But exactly what has it influenced other than a handful of people getting an enjoyable experience out of it?
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Hathen
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« Reply #72 on: April 29, 2009, 10:53:17 AM »

How can you say that popularity has nothing to do with being influential? It's hard for something that's unpopular to lend itself to being influential. Evangelion was influential for lots of anime to come, but it borrowed many ideas from Ideon. Ideon is only really known among mecha genre fanatics and they love the show, but it's hardly influential because many of the ideas in Ideon have only been carried on because of the popularity of Evangelion.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #73 on: April 29, 2009, 11:21:56 AM »

Even in that case, since Evangelion was drawing influence from another source, it can be said that Ideon was the source of the inspiration, and thus was more influential in the long run.  A lot of the most popular movies and videogames and everything else was actually inspired by something else.  Whole careers have been spawned because some director watched/played some obscure movie/game and wanted to do something with the idea.

As far as I see it, FFX didn't influence anything, becuase RPG's were on those trends a long time before it came around.  And FFXII's only big innovation was it's Gambit system, which thankfully hasn't been picked up by anything else.  I fail to see how these games influenced anything at all.

I will admit that I have a somewhat skewed view of what constitutes "influence", though, so take that as you will.
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ChevalierEagle
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« Reply #74 on: April 29, 2009, 11:37:54 AM »

Is it a positive thing to be influential anyway? How many awful bands, movies, games and what not spawn right after another band, movie or game introduced a something good to the medium? Evangelion might had spawned a stream of stuff with pointless religious rambles and teens that want to kill themselves, Quentin Tarantino hack movies just created a shitload of more hack movies about saying cool lines while killing someone, and The Beatles spawned Oasis, nuff said.
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