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Author Topic: Final Fantasy X or XII?  (Read 23643 times)
Ashton
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« Reply #120 on: May 02, 2009, 05:45:20 AM »

Jecht himself didn't need to be developed. His relationship with Tidus did, and you wouldn't be calling it anticlimatic unless you didn't even pay attention for the entire game.
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #121 on: May 02, 2009, 07:06:47 AM »

Dude, you DO need Jecht to be believable. I replayed FFX just a couple of months ago, and while I do appreciate Tidus more now, Jecht is still pretty unbelievable. We're introduced somewhat cold to Jecht and that's about it. Again, it plays out more like a big brother being a bully rather than a father-son scenario. We see very little chemistry between Jecht and Tidus' mom, very little of Jecht period, and in the end it's just not enough to round him out properly. He doesn't need tons of exposure, but there need to be the right elements. As is, it just seems kinda plastique and not particularly believable.
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Ashton
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« Reply #122 on: May 02, 2009, 09:09:38 AM »

His absence is exactly what makes the characterization believable. Since we're watching things through Tidus' eyes, we get the picture of a man who didn't give a shit about his family. You didn't need chemistry between Tidus' mom and him for that. But then you see different facets of how people see him (Yuna saying he was 'kind and gentle', etc.), and as the game progressed, it becomes apparent that he actually cares deeply about his family, he's just too alpha male to be all sensitive. Jecht is entirely believable because we're shown small parts of who he is but never the true him until the late stages of the game, which is the point; Tidus finally sees his dad is actually a pretty cool guy but he has to kill him immediately afterward, and thanks to his progression throughout the game, we get to see him develop from a whiny ass pansy into a man with steel resolve - Jecht was an important part of that progression.

I still don't get where you're getting this 'big brother' vibe from him because the dynamic clearly wasn't like that.

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Lard
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« Reply #123 on: May 02, 2009, 06:19:36 PM »

Go for FFX.

I found the characters less bland, the story less yawn inducing (FF 12 barely had a story anyway), and the combat system was more fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU8-e-C4Uy0

I've been playing RPGs for almost 10 years, and still to this date that's the most embarrasing thing i have seen playing these games. Heck, maybe the most embarrasing moment i ever had with a videogame.

I've seen multiple scenes in Eternal Sonata that have been far more embarrassing than this, and I'm not even finished the game.
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ChevalierEagle
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« Reply #124 on: May 02, 2009, 08:51:30 PM »

His absence is exactly what makes the characterization believable. Since we're watching things through Tidus' eyes, we get the picture of a man who didn't give a shit about his family. You didn't need chemistry between Tidus' mom and him for that. But then you see different facets of how people see him (Yuna saying he was 'kind and gentle', etc.), and as the game progressed, it becomes apparent that he actually cares deeply about his family, he's just too alpha male to be all sensitive. Jecht is entirely believable because we're shown small parts of who he is but never the true him until the late stages of the game, which is the point; Tidus finally sees his dad is actually a pretty cool guy but he has to kill him immediately afterward, and thanks to his progression throughout the game, we get to see him develop from a whiny ass pansy into a man with steel resolve - Jecht was an important part of that progression.

I still don't get where you're getting this 'big brother' vibe from him because the dynamic clearly wasn't like that.



Like Hidoshi said, we aren't give a lot of a picture of Jetch really, him being absent doesn't equal character developement either. I don't even remember Tidus mom ever appearing in the game at all. Again, it's not about "quantity" in terms of developement, just actually saying more in the flashbacks we see. Jetch felt very one dimensional for me, so i guess we won't agree here any time soon D:
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« Reply #125 on: May 03, 2009, 02:43:41 AM »

What about the kid that wanted to be a blitzball when he grew up?

Writing about an absent father figure like that is probably really hard to do unless you experienced it yourself, which I doubt the writers had experienced.

Same with writing about mental issues or religion or other things that are/were popular in RPGs. They're things you just have to know from experience.
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ChevalierEagle
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« Reply #126 on: May 03, 2009, 05:43:39 AM »

What about the kid that wanted to be a blitzball when he grew up?

Writing about an absent father figure like that is probably really hard to do unless you experienced it yourself, which I doubt the writers had experienced.

Same with writing about mental issues or religion or other things that are/were popular in RPGs. They're things you just have to know from experience.

By that logic, the people at Square Enix have experienced the following:

-Time travel
-Summoning mythological creatures
-Cloning
-Living as the manifestation of a dream of someone else

If they didn't know how to write a convincing father-son relationship then they should just avoid trying it.
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Ashton
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« Reply #127 on: May 03, 2009, 08:54:10 AM »

Again, I have to stress, you didn't have to see Jecht at all to get a clear notion of the type of person he was. People were telling you all about him as the game progressed. I'm replaying it right now and it amazes me how they fleshed him out without so much as showing him significantly until nearly the end. For example, when you first see the Shoopuf, Auron tells you how Jecht came to stop drinking.

If anyone says that Jecht was "not developed" or anything they are wrong. Maybe not as developed as say, Tidus, but that's the point; Jecht isn't the main character. Tidus is.
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #128 on: May 03, 2009, 11:13:06 AM »

Well, be impressed I suppose. I still disagree. Jecht's archetype is that of a bullish big brother, not an abandoning father. In the end, I don't feel any reality to Tidus' problems with Jecht. The aspect I liked best with Tidus was his chemistry with Yuna. It's not an insta-love story and it develops at a believable pace. I actually think I'd care more about Jecht if I saw a bit more between him and Auron. Just doesn't work for me otherwise. Similarly, I find the Lulu-Yuna connection pales out because of the way Lulu's personality works. Or Lulu and Wakka. Or Lulu and ANYONE. Blech.
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ChevalierEagle
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« Reply #129 on: May 03, 2009, 04:48:14 PM »

Let's just say that we have different concepts of what constitutes a well fleshed character.
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CDFN
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« Reply #130 on: May 04, 2009, 05:20:14 AM »

Considering that the TC hasn't played the games, there's a huge amount of uncoded spoilers in this thread. Just sayin'.

To me it's obvious that FFX wins when it comes to story/characters. Not even a contest really.

My favorite part is:

Code:
when Tidus finds out that Yuna will have to sacrifice herself to defeat Sin, he thinks he is protecting her but he is only leading her to certain death. Everyone knew about it except him, he really feels betrayed by everyone, not to mention he had already falen in love with her. But what really gets me is that everyone is so damn scared that sacrificing a friend is a minor casualty in the big picture. So when Tidus finally discovers a way to prevent Yuna's death it's... killing his own father. That would have been a bit easier in the beginning because he hated his father but by the end of the game his feelings change a lot. I mean, come on, this is a good story.
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