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Author Topic: "The Greatest Enemy of the RPG Genre" article...  (Read 14909 times)
Eusis
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« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2009, 10:50:19 PM »

A reviewer with very unique tastes wouldn't be a very good reviewer, after all.

Ahh, but there will be people who agree more with this reviewer than others, and by extension this makes their review all the more important. Tycho mentioned the review debacles for Savage and Neverwinter Nights 2 that every review has some merit, even that silly Etrian Odyssey review in Game Informer can have value to someone. The only times when a review's truly worthless is when it's paid off and not the reviewer's actual opinion, or when it's outright false, neither of which I believe are all that common.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2009, 10:55:34 PM »

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otaku are often tabletop roleplayers, writers, and artists, which are generally considered pretty creative hobbies (and certainly require imagination).

Oh, I know THAT. I meant more that they kind of suck at those things, though.

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The only times when a review's truly worthless is when it's paid off and not the reviewer's actual opinion, or when it's outright false, neither of which I believe are all that common.

That Australian SupCom review is the only one that comes to mind for me, honestly.
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Lard
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« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2009, 12:03:49 AM »

The real enemy is Gamefaqs and their "BEST ________ EVER!" tournaments.

I remember when the L block won of these polls. It was great. :P

Yes, admittedly, it was.
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magusgs
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« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2009, 01:18:48 AM »

You realize we're now being elitists for looking down on the fanboy masses, right?  It's a Catch 22.  You can't hold disdain for elitists without being elitist ("I'm better than them") yourself.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 01:22:35 AM by magusgs » Logged

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Eusis
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« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2009, 02:25:49 AM »

You realize we're now being elitists for looking down on the fanboy masses, right?  It's a Catch 22.  You can't hold disdain for elitists without being elitist ("I'm better than them") yourself.

That's really weak logic. Most of the disdain is because, by being elitist, they're giant jerks to everyone else - see some of the examples in Ash's essay. Not that there aren't people who are hypocritical here, at least to some degree, but at the same time there's several who'd rather just have a mature discussion or play a game online only for some asshole(s) to ruin the whole damn thing.
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« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2009, 02:28:29 AM »

You realize we're now being elitists for looking down on the fanboy masses, right?  It's a Catch 22.  You can't hold disdain for elitists without being elitist ("I'm better than them") yourself.

is that so? then Iīd rather be an elitist than a fanboy from the masses... besides I donīt think our rants will ever catch anybody apart the members of this forum.

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ChevalierEagle
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« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2009, 03:59:35 AM »

But indeed, and as i said some time ago, most "gamers" and "fans" and what not don't want "innovation", the word actually scares and confuses them. They just want to play the same game rehashed over and over, ported, remade, with sequels that play in the same way and so on.

You wouldn't be a fan if there wasn't something about the game that you really liked.  Of course fans would want more of the same.

But that "something" that makes me like a game can be a lot of different things. If i'm a fan of certain franchises is because i already know there's a certain ammount of quality behind them. My point is about people who like stuff that never changes, it's safer to approach it and even to digest it because they already know exactly what they will get. That's not a bad thing per se, the problem comes when a franchise wants to try something different, these type of fans will go berserk even at the minimum signal of change.

BTW, the "otakus" that i have met are probably the most simple minded people i have seen in my life, neither creative or open minded at all. They're not better, or worse, than any other crazy fandom out there.
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magusgs
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« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2009, 12:57:30 PM »

BTW, the "otakus" that i have met are probably the most simple minded people i have seen in my life, neither creative or open minded at all. They're not better, or worse, than any other crazy fandom out there.

*Throws in the towel on defending otaku.*
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« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2009, 01:20:57 PM »

Wise decision.

If it serves as consolation, at least they're not furries.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2009, 02:17:46 PM »

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You can't hold disdain for elitists without being elitist ("I'm better than them") yourself.

Ah, but you see, just because I don't like fandoms and elitists doesn't mean I think I'm any better off than they are.

You know what they say. Whenever you point a finger at someone, there's always four pointing back at yourself. Intentionally.

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If it serves as consolation, at least they're not furries.

There's actually a ton of overlap.
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« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2009, 03:44:16 PM »

I liked this article. This reminds me of the Tales of Vesperia GameFAQS board last year. If anyone said anything about ToV being less than a masterpiece, 34568465 people were gonna e-lynch the poster.
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« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2009, 06:27:26 PM »

It's easier to define ourselves by what media we choose when it's not being shoved in our face.  Someone who liked Megaten before Digital Devil Saga is more likely to be interested in theology and history than someone who jumped aboard because it received good reviews.

I think our opinions are much less honest with the internet feeding us opinions as well. 

I was never a fan of anything until Final Fantasy 2 and 3 on SNES... I specifically remember saying to myself "I'm going to remember the name Squaresoft, because this is unlike anything I've played before."  That lead to Chrono Trigger, and me remembering the name Akira Toriyama because I really liked the art style.

So now, if I say "I like Akira Toriyama" everyone will think I am a Dragonball Z fan, which is completely irrelevant.  I thought I was growing up to be a man with distinguished tastes!

I don't want to be that guy who defines himself by his possessions, but I don't think I can help it.  I'm not sure if I'm saying anything that hasn't been said, but I think you can tell a lot about a person by their game collections.  Now, why do I feel like I'm rationalizing elitism?  Just hit post and walk away... *does*
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ChevalierEagle
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« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2009, 08:55:44 PM »

It's easier to define ourselves by what media we choose when it's not being shoved in our face.  Someone who liked Megaten before Digital Devil Saga is more likely to be interested in theology and history than someone who jumped aboard because it received good reviews.

I think our opinions are much less honest with the internet feeding us opinions as well. 

I was never a fan of anything until Final Fantasy 2 and 3 on SNES... I specifically remember saying to myself "I'm going to remember the name Squaresoft, because this is unlike anything I've played before."  That lead to Chrono Trigger, and me remembering the name Akira Toriyama because I really liked the art style.

So now, if I say "I like Akira Toriyama" everyone will think I am a Dragonball Z fan, which is completely irrelevant.  I thought I was growing up to be a man with distinguished tastes!

I don't want to be that guy who defines himself by his possessions, but I don't think I can help it.  I'm not sure if I'm saying anything that hasn't been said, but I think you can tell a lot about a person by their game collections.  Now, why do I feel like I'm rationalizing elitism?  Just hit post and walk away... *does*

The general perception some people might have of certain hobbies is actually not because of the material itself (well, it is in certain cases) but most of the time is thanks to stereotypes that the fanbases themselves help to create. If the geek/nerd stereotype of a fat, visceral, lonely, anti-social guy has lived for so long is because there are certainly plenty of people who live up to that image. That said, it really shouldn't matter to you what's the perception that others might have about certain hobbies, everybody enjoys things in different ways, even fans of the same thing.
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seaechiowai
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« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2009, 10:46:00 PM »

People tend to get carried away once they label something "best __" ever. They feel they have to defend themselves. Same with FF7. I think it's best not to grade games, just enjoy what you found enjoy, and don't attack someone else because they're not elite. No one should call anyone else n00b or whatever just because they felt that someone else shouldn't have gotten as much enjoyment in FF7 as they first played Ultima.
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Eusis
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« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2009, 10:50:11 PM »

I think it's best not to grade games, just enjoy what you found enjoy, and don't attack someone else because they're not elite.

Well, I don't think scoring in and of itself is that bad, the problem is when people ignore the review itself without even looking to see the final paragraph at the least, and becoming too obsessed over the score. I've been caring less and less over time, it doesn't really matter if the score's bad if the review sold me on the game anyway and/or the complaints listed are irrelevant to me, but some people act as if a 7 means a game is no good, which is ridiculous even with some of the more tilted sites/magazines.

Edit: Actually, I'm finding it dumber and dumber to have a bunch of categories to rate, especially when they include crap like multiplayer that isn't even relevant to many games then force the final score to be an average of all these other scores. Guys, it's not a science, most people are just going to give scores along the lines of the final score anyway.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2009, 11:47:24 PM by Eusis » Logged
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