"The Greatest Enemy of the RPG Genre" article...

[Eusis]

Man, how'd I ignore that? Yeah, no, it's easy to paint reviewers as all liking just the big name popular stuff but 1. a lot of that stuff usually earns its praise to some degree at least and 2. their tastes are just as varied as anyone else's. If you don't agree with one source, go to another, or try to track names so you know which reviewers you can ignore and which actually share your tastes.

Killer7 wasn't even scored that badly overall, what Chevalier said applies just as much to the reviewers.

[Lard]

Hmm, I guess I'm not allowed to play them then. :/

Nonsense! Just spend awhile reading through the summaries they give for each!

I got into the series because of how EGM's preview (or was it a review?) way back for Persona 1 sounded. I guess they spoiled some of the game since I never explicitly encountered what they talked about, but what they mentioned definitely got my interest. I imagine most newcomers were the same way anyway.

Actually, I completely forgot about that.

I also got into Nocturne because I had already played Persona 2. Doh. Don't know how I could've forgotten that. And I got into Persona 2 for the same reasons you got into Persona 1.

[kelvinc]

Don't forget that the newbies "graduate" to becoming the new elite pretty quickly.  I recall reading some very vocal fans on the Atlus board clamouring for more of the same in a (hypothetical) Persona 5, after getting initiated on P3 or P4 (a class that, incidentally, includes myself).  And I can't help but wonder how disappointed they'll be whenever P5 comes out, because it'll either reboot a lot of the gameplay in the same way that P3 did for the Persona series, or it will be more of the same and it'll look cheap and boring because of it.  They can catch lightning in a bottle only so many times.

[Lard]

You have a point there, and I kept thinking it's too soon!

I was pretty happy that they decided to do a Devil Summoner game instead, just for something different.

[AJR]

I’m sorry, I can’t help it:

"People who have fun with a game for reasons other than my own definition of fun aren't actually having fun at all."

In fact, the hardcore players probably have more fun with the games, simply because we dig into the games and find all the hidden gems that many times turn mediocre games into great ones that we enjoy for years and years, while casual "only for fun" players generally play a game for a month or two before forgetting about it completely.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I fail to see how those contradict each other?  In the first quote, I'm saying that it's ludicrous to think that your way of having fun with a game is the only way, which is the EXACT SAME THING I was saying in the second quote.

[Tomara]

You said hardcore gamers have more fun than people who don't care about getting 100% :P

IMO it depends on the game and the person playing it. You could call me a hardcore gamer, but I didn't think Final Fantasy X was fun enough to spend countless hours on the Dark Aeon sidequests. I didn't even get all the ultimate weapons, because I thought half of the mini-games were stupid and frustrating. I played the game once from beginning to end and that was enough for me, anymore wouldn't have been fun for me. On the other hand, I know almost everything about Terranigma and I see Tetris Party as an easy way to get free Wii points. Some games are worth is, some aren't and my way of measuring fun isn't the same as the next person's.

[AJR]

Tomara hit the nail on the head. You assumed casual gamers were having less fun than you based off your own experiences. It was anecdotal and silly. I just thought the fact that you gleefully berated people who looked down upon other peoples’ playing experiences was kind of ironic.

[Gen Eric Gui]

I said "tend to" and I quantified it with saying that we usually tend to play the games for greater lengths of time, which = "more" fun.  Most casual players stopped playing Street Fighter 2 at some point, the hardcores are STILL playing it and still discovering new nuances to the gameplay.  That was my point, it had nothing to do with who was enjoying it "better", because that's a ludicrous concept.  In fact, that was the exact thing I was opposing in the post you quoted, that somebody was trying to tell me that hardcore fighting game players don't have fun because they play to win, which is silly.

[Hoshino_Kid]

I've browsed around a bit in the forums and encountered this: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/933/933825p1.html

I kinda believe this is what's also killing RPGs, especially the JRPGs.

[ChevalierEagle]

I said "tend to" and I quantified it with saying that we usually tend to play the games for greater lengths of time, which = "more" fun.  Most casual players stopped playing Street Fighter 2 at some point, the hardcores are STILL playing it and still discovering new nuances to the gameplay.  That was my point, it had nothing to do with who was enjoying it "better", because that's a ludicrous concept.  In fact, that was the exact thing I was opposing in the post you quoted, that somebody was trying to tell me that hardcore fighting game players don't have fun because they play to win, which is silly.

Damn, is it that hard to admit that you were contradicting yourself with your previous statements? And that you were acting like an elitist snobish "gamer"?

I've browsed around a bit in the forums and encountered this: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/933/933825p1.html

I kinda believe this is what's also killing RPGs, especially the JRPGs.

Let me translate that article:

"Japanese RPGs need to be like Western RPGs"

[Gen Eric Gui]

Damn, is it that hard to admit that you were contradicting yourself with your previous statements? And that you were acting like an elitist snobish "gamer"?

I'd admit it if I had.  But I didn't.

[ChevalierEagle]

Damn, is it that hard to admit that you were contradicting yourself with your previous statements? And that you were acting like an elitist snobish "gamer"?

I'd admit it if I had.  But I didn't.

You're funny Gen.

[Parn]

I think he's talking about "more fun" in terms of getting more mileage out of a game, not that he's getting a better gaming experience than others.  Or at least that's what I'm interpreting.

[Gen Eric Gui]

That's exactly what I'm saying.