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Author Topic: "The Greatest Enemy of the RPG Genre" article...  (Read 13996 times)
Tomara
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« Reply #75 on: May 05, 2009, 02:13:38 AM »

I'd say the main game is usually more fun than all the tacked on extras and hidden things. For me the fun usually starts declining somewhere near the end and I'd rather start a new game after finishing it, than going back to all the secrets in the game I was playing.

Fun isn't always of the same quality. The cummalative fun from short game can equal that of a longer game. Now, if someone could define "fun", we'd be able to do some math, because math is fun. Or not.
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Grass
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« Reply #76 on: May 05, 2009, 05:45:24 AM »

Hello everyone, I'm new at this forum, but have been a regular visitor to this for several years now. The article at hand kinda startled me, as it is a rather new take on things (albeit with a shallow analysis), and made me register here.

I think it is true that fanboyism and related tendencies is detrimental to the overall quality of things, not only concerning video games, but popular culture in general. There is written a lot of critique about this phenomenon, about how people find their "identities" in commercial media and initiate struggles between themselves to prove both themselves and their particular medium's excellence. Be it music (Iron Maiden and Radiohead, anyone?), movies and television, brands in general, video games, sport (my God!), diet choices, etc. I think "labels" have always been important to humans, but the phenomenon has escalated in modern times, it seems - and has changed course. It might be more important to be part of a social niche concerning games and music now than feeling connected to traditional values like country, line of work, religion and class.

When it comes to RPGs, or games in general, I think the main problem is the status it has in the market. I might be wrong, but I guess that most people on this board are about 25 or something. I'm not a typical fanboy (perhaps), which has an obvious explanation - I think think it is lame to behave and think like one! My interests has changed, the elements I look for in arts are different, what I consider good music has changed. Basically, I've grown up (not done yet, though :p), and so has my tastes for everything. Before, I could listen to music, play a game, etc. and conclude "good" or "bad" simply judging from my experience with the stuff and other's reactions to it. The established view of certain products were extremely important, for example concerning Final Fantasy VI. I don't think I would've enjoyed that game nearly as much if people didn't tell me to like it. But now I'm more on my own, I feel that I can judge art myself, and point out what's successful and what's not, how everything fits together etc.

I believe that JRPGs suffer from their market, which is mainly those fanboy-types. Socially accepted norms for how things should be is the dominating factor, which makes all JRPGs by far too immature, otaku and lame for most of us. Compared to other media in popular culture, like music, visual art and clothes, JRPGs have a severely limited market (or at least so publishers seem to think). All music that is produced isn't geared against Justin Timberlake concert attendees, but it seems like JRPGs are. There are so many set of non-obvious rules which almost all of them seem to follow, included but not limited to: 1.) A dull an clichéd story. 2.) Over-the-top and art direction with repeating character-design. 3.) Superficial characters that almost always are in their teens. 4.) Simple and available RPG-music. 5.) Repetitive gameplay. 6.) you know the rest.

The only way to remedy these faults, and make RPGs which fit a more grown-up population of gamers, is to leave these clichés behind and think towards a new market. The developers need to create RPGs without a one-size-fits-all formula; that is, to make game for a class of educated and intellectual middle-class citizens who have been RPG players for a long time and long for something new. I DO believe Square Enix and co. could have done this, but instead of trying to develop new markets, they continue to focus on their childish stupido-rpgs. RPGs for this market wouldn't be plagued by fanboyism, as the market consists of non-fanboyist types! So, in the way I view it, fanboyism is the symptom, not the problem.

[The best solution to this problem would be public libraries of code, graphics, etc for games and many more indie developers. Imo. Let the quality games (for the educated middle class) prevail!]
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ChevalierEagle
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« Reply #77 on: May 05, 2009, 06:50:40 AM »

All this reminds me of that recent interview with Keita Takahashi, where he says how annoying he finds that people that play videogames in Japan (and to a certain extent everywhere) are labeled by companies simply as consumers and nothing more. In other words, videogame companies, no matter in which genre they work, must give the audience more credit and try to actually offer new products. Sure, the results many times speak for themselves, and the Okamis, The World Ends With You and other games that try a different approach to the medium sometimes get the boot by having low sales. But damn, if you stop trying to create something new then what's the point of being in a medium that actually does allow creativity to flow? Might as well just work in a button factory.
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ScaleTail
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« Reply #78 on: May 06, 2009, 10:19:53 PM »

So I think I have to disagree. Don't get me wrong, fanatical fans are bad. But the greatest enemy? Even being facetious and over-the-top, I think pouncing on the fans is just easy. Everybody will agree that people who start flame wars are bad and nobody likes hypocrites, even while being unable to recognize those same flaws in themselves. This is a group that nobody will rise to defend.

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Yet when Tales of Legendia was released to lukewarm reviews, these same people asked the question "Why does nobody understand the greatness that is the Tales series?" I'll tell you why: they've all been driven away–by you!

I also have to patently disagree with the notion that somehow rabid, hardcore fans drive reviewers into giving their favorite series a bad score. Reviewers give out bad scores to games they don't like, which most of the time are bad games. If a reviewer is purposely riling up the fans with low scores, then that person should be out of a job.

Personally, I've never made a decision not to purchase what I believed to be an otherwise good video game just because the fans of that game are annoying. Doesn't it make more sense that bad games would be a bigger threat to the genre? I mean, if the game is bad, then nobody will care about it.
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Eusis
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« Reply #79 on: May 06, 2009, 10:25:20 PM »

I think the point is to show that they're doing more harm than good. Sure, they're probably not driving away a significant portion of sales (most people who play the games probably never encounter these fanatics), but they're not helping at all by screaming at everyone who dislikes the game.
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ScaleTail
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« Reply #80 on: May 06, 2009, 10:29:21 PM »

I think the point is to show that they're doing more harm than good. Sure, they're probably not driving away a significant portion of sales (most people who play the games probably never encounter these fanatics), but they're not helping at all by screaming at everyone who dislikes the game.

If that is the case, then the title of the article is disingenuous and inflammatory. Though it got me to readd it and post about it. :0
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kelvinc
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« Reply #81 on: May 07, 2009, 01:04:15 AM »

I think that excessive fans are to blame, to an extent, but in a way that was sadly understated in the article: they, by being loud, excessively push developers toward caution and away from innovation.  Why mess with a good thing?  Problem is that the JRPG market is small and so the developers are in a catch-22: they don't want to do anything that pisses off their fan base, but they aren't doing anything to grow it.

Though when every SO4 review seems to say the same thing, that it's unimaginative and seems like a game they've all played before, only with better graphics, maybe developers have finally hit the point where they're better off actually coming up with new ideas because the market is big enough that greener pastures are everywhere.
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