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Author Topic: Gayming, as it were.  (Read 15270 times)
ULTROS!
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« Reply #60 on: May 04, 2009, 12:33:22 PM »

I suppose I see the Bible as I do any book of good advice. Much like medicine, you don't take one cure for all your ails, you take a specific treatment for the best results. Similarly, it seems silly to take a whole book all at once to deal with your moral and spiritual standpoints. Rather, it would seem more fitting that specific passages were meant to deal with specific ordeals and deliberations.

From what I understand in the Bible (and to sum it all up) and their teachings, it states that we should be good people and not hate others.

Dude, No way! That's unbelievable man! See, I don't even need sarcasm tags.

A good number of people (extremists included) tend to go overboard when understanding the Bible (i.e. all sluts are evil according to Proverbs 23:27-28). :P It's sad though and a lot of people within my Catholic community don't see the actual point.
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Ryos
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« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2009, 06:02:39 PM »

The best part about the Bible is all the excised books, such as the Gospel of Judas which I find really fascinating, and the book of... Natania, I believe, which involves a women with like, cockcroaches all up in her reproductive organ, and is either a real gnostic text or some bizarre fanfic from a sex BBS from the 80s. I don't really know.

The Acts of Paul and Thecla were some pretty awesome feminist literature, especially for back then. 
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« Reply #62 on: May 06, 2009, 07:13:15 PM »

I used to really be against homosexuality when I was younger, but I've re-evaluated my stances some. As I've met more people and explored my personal beliefs, I realized that irregardless of my religious beliefs (Christian) preventing gay people from being gay is still oppression, and somebody who is attracted to someone of the same damn gender is just as human as anyone else, and therefore should have the same freedoms as everyone else, which I believe include the freedom to marry someone you love.

I've had the pleasure of meeting some great people who just happen to be gay or bisexual, and that's how I see them--as regular people who happen to have a sexual preference that differs from mine. So no, I don't care if I'm playing or discussing videogames with a gay person, it happens a lot.

That said, I don't think I should have to automatically like someone just because they're gay, as if not doing so would make me a bigot. I have met many gay, lesbian and bisexual people that are awesome, but I've met just as many that propagate negative stereotypes that have made me really dislike them as people. In a nutshell, if I consider someone my friend, it doesn't fucking matter what their sexual preference is or anything else about them, I'm obviously not too perturbed by it if I call someone my friend, but if I don't like someone, it's because of their personality and actions, not their beliefs, race or sexual preference.
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« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2009, 05:05:26 PM »

I have to say that being a gay gamer would kind of suck when there aren't very many gay relationships in video games.  The percentage of gay gamers (I haven't bothered researching it, but I'd imagine it's slightly higher than the world's proportions in terms of sexual preferences)  doesn't really support that kind of close-mindedness.  Granted most of the straight relationships are pretty bad in video games anyway, but people with different preferences are mostly left to imagine relationships that aren't canon since the games themselves tend not to do it.  Which I always found odd with JRPGs anyway because gay characters are a dime a dozen in anime, including even those with a similar target audience age.  Even the fact the developer gender skews highly towards males doesn't really explain this discrepancy because last I checked a lot of guys like the whole lesbian innuendo bit.

it does suck but i'm really good at reapropiating(sp?) a character that shows even the slightest sign. such as Hrist and Aelia in the VP series. maybee i'm lucky but i've never faced negativity online due to my sexuality. about the bible... what if the bible said god created black people to be white mans slaves? would be have people wanting slavery because the bible says so?
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« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2009, 05:29:56 PM »

about the bible... what if the bible said god created black people to be white mans slaves? would be have people wanting slavery because the bible says so?

As I mentioned later in the thread, the Curse of Ham pretty much is a screwy interpretation that was used by slave owners to justify slavery in a religious context.  It isn't quite the same argument, but it's just as bizarre.  On a related note, Noah's Curse: The Biblical Justification of American Slavery by Stephen R. Haynes is a pretty fascinating book on the subject. 

Edit: Fei originally mentioned this though.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 05:51:49 PM by Ryos » Logged

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« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2009, 08:48:51 PM »

This thread makes me proud to be a 'fan.

By the way, about the comment from the artical that "a straight man does not have to advertise that he is straight," I know there are a few that disagree with that, and there's obviously some exceptions, but I think the point is generally correct. Heterosexuality is the majority in every city in every country on earth. It's simply a logical conclusion in loo of the the statistics, whether not it's ethical or not to make that judgement.

I'm all for including homosexuality in video games... as long as it isn't there simply as titlating fodder for straight gamers. I DO NOT see Mass Effect's lesbian relationship as a step-forward for gay rights, for instance... in fact I see it more as an objectification of lesbianism for the enjoyment of straight males. Maybe it was fairly tastefull, maybe it wasn't even neccessarily unethical, but let's not kid ourselves either.
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« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2009, 09:36:03 PM »

I'm all for including homosexuality in video games... as long as it isn't there simply as titlating fodder for straight gamers. I DO NOT see Mass Effect's lesbian relationship as a step-forward for gay rights, for instance... in fact I see it more as an objectification of lesbianism for the enjoyment of straight males. Maybe it was fairly tastefull, maybe it wasn't even neccessarily unethical, but let's not kid ourselves either.

Which actually brings up a problem I have with Alisha's "interpretations": Fanwank. I find it awfully offensive to the original material when people do this kind of crap. Perhaps that's why I don't like fanfiction in general (especially not pornfics), though there are occasions when a fanwriter can do the original material justice. One of the most frequent and offensive subversions is homo-to-hetero or hetero-to-homo (the latter being more common). It reaches a degree of way-more-offensive when straight females transform straight males into homosexuals (owing to the issue where straight females have no god damned clue what being a male homosexual is like -- I don't either, but then I'm not doing this), but it's ridiculous either way.

Hrist = Not a lesbian.
Aelia = Also not a lesbian.

Fear Effect on the other hand? Go nuts. :P
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Ryos
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« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2009, 10:57:54 PM »

Which actually brings up a problem I have with Alisha's "interpretations": Fanwank. I find it awfully offensive to the original material when people do this kind of crap.

Whoa whoa, hey now, I know you aren't going to crash my KOS-MOS x Shion parade.  Although it does bring up the point again that it's sort of a bummer that homosexuals aren't represented well enough in games.  If it isn't there you pretty much have to bend the truth a little (or a lot) to get a relevant relationship if you care about that sort of thing.  Now regardless of how few heterosexual relationships are done all that well in games (I know I've ranted and raved a few times about how RPGs insist on going back to that time and again), at least there are a quite a few available. 
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« Reply #68 on: May 08, 2009, 12:00:39 AM »

Shion x KOS-MOS doesn't make sense, and you know it. :P That isn't even a question of hetero v. homo.
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ULTROS!
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« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2009, 01:35:10 AM »

I'm all for including homosexuality in video games...

Ever heard of Cho Aniki? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cho_Aniki
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« Reply #70 on: May 08, 2009, 11:57:25 AM »

I'm all for including homosexuality in video games... as long as it isn't there simply as titlating fodder for straight gamers. I DO NOT see Mass Effect's lesbian relationship as a step-forward for gay rights, for instance... in fact I see it more as an objectification of lesbianism for the enjoyment of straight males. Maybe it was fairly tastefull, maybe it wasn't even neccessarily unethical, but let's not kid ourselves either.

Which actually brings up a problem I have with Alisha's "interpretations": Fanwank. I find it awfully offensive to the original material when people do this kind of crap. Perhaps that's why I don't like fanfiction in general (especially not pornfics), though there are occasions when a fanwriter can do the original material justice. One of the most frequent and offensive subversions is homo-to-hetero or hetero-to-homo (the latter being more common). It reaches a degree of way-more-offensive when straight females transform straight males into homosexuals (owing to the issue where straight females have no god damned clue what being a male homosexual is like -- I don't either, but then I'm not doing this), but it's ridiculous either way.

Hrist = Not a lesbian.
Aelia = Also not a lesbian.

Fear Effect on the other hand? Go nuts. :P
well it's not like I write fanfics or something. it's just something to help me forge an attachment with a character. but sometimes it backfires on me such as in the case of Raquel in the ending of WA4,and Tear when she blurts out that she loves luke at the end of the game. oftentimes when i see a depiction of love in a rpg between a male and female such as the scene near the end of FFX i feel like a fish out of water. maybee it's partly jealousy since the last time my girlfriend kissed me in public someone threw food at me >_>
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« Reply #71 on: May 08, 2009, 04:09:53 PM »

I'm all for including homosexuality in video games... as long as it isn't there simply as titlating fodder for straight gamers. I DO NOT see Mass Effect's lesbian relationship as a step-forward for gay rights, for instance... in fact I see it more as an objectification of lesbianism for the enjoyment of straight males. Maybe it was fairly tastefull, maybe it wasn't even neccessarily unethical, but let's not kid ourselves either.

Which actually brings up a problem I have with Alisha's "interpretations": Fanwank. I find it awfully offensive to the original material when people do this kind of crap. Perhaps that's why I don't like fanfiction in general (especially not pornfics), though there are occasions when a fanwriter can do the original material justice. One of the most frequent and offensive subversions is homo-to-hetero or hetero-to-homo (the latter being more common). It reaches a degree of way-more-offensive when straight females transform straight males into homosexuals (owing to the issue where straight females have no god damned clue what being a male homosexual is like -- I don't either, but then I'm not doing this), but it's ridiculous either way.

Hrist = Not a lesbian.
Aelia = Also not a lesbian.

Fear Effect on the other hand? Go nuts. :P
well it's not like I write fanfics or something. it's just something to help me forge an attachment with a character. but sometimes it backfires on me such as in the case of Raquel in the ending of WA4,and Tear when she blurts out that she loves luke at the end of the game. oftentimes when i see a depiction of love in a rpg between a male and female such as the scene near the end of FFX i feel like a fish out of water. maybee it's partly jealousy since the last time my girlfriend kissed me in public someone threw food at me >_>

I know it might not be much, but Hanako Games's OEL Visual Novel "Fatal Hearts" has a girl/girl ending pairing. I liked it a lot better than some of the girl/guy pairings.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 01:39:55 PM by (Tunnels) » Logged
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« Reply #72 on: May 08, 2009, 05:13:30 PM »

I used to really be against homosexuality when I was younger, but I've re-evaluated my stances some. As I've met more people and explored my personal beliefs, I realized that irregardless of my religious beliefs (Christian) preventing gay people from being gay is still oppression, and somebody who is attracted to someone of the same damn gender is just as human as anyone else, and therefore should have the same freedoms as everyone else, which I believe include the freedom to marry someone you love.

I've had the pleasure of meeting some great people who just happen to be gay or bisexual, and that's how I see them--as regular people who happen to have a sexual preference that differs from mine. So no, I don't care if I'm playing or discussing videogames with a gay person, it happens a lot.

That said, I don't think I should have to automatically like someone just because they're gay, as if not doing so would make me a bigot. I have met many gay, lesbian and bisexual people that are awesome, but I've met just as many that propagate negative stereotypes that have made me really dislike them as people. In a nutshell, if I consider someone my friend, it doesn't fucking matter what their sexual preference is or anything else about them, I'm obviously not too perturbed by it if I call someone my friend, but if I don't like someone, it's because of their personality and actions, not their beliefs, race or sexual preference.

Everything you said, I say too. Rock on.
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« Reply #73 on: May 09, 2009, 08:33:12 AM »

I know it might not be much, but Hanako Games's OEL Visual Novel "Fatal Hearts" has a girl/girl ending pairing. I liked it a lot better than some of the girl/guy pairings.

Fatal Hearts was a sweet game.

---

ASIDE: Forgetting about hetero, bi, or homosexual relationships for a second, it's difficult to simply write a good relationship into a story, period.  Be it a novel, a movie, a TV show, anything.  I'm not just talking a love relationship, I'm talking interpersonal relationship in general.  Even in many love adventures (and I've played my fair share), relationships seem stilted, scripted, and even shallow.  Yeah, that's a big insult since love adventures are 100% harbored by relationships. 

The Persona games are among the few that actually wrestle with the nature of interpersonal relationships.  Some of the deepest video game relationships I've seen were the interpersonal relationships in Innocent Sin where the main characters were kids.  Tatsuya and Jun had a very deep friendship, that we would call a "bro-mance" these days.  And let's just say I relate to Kanji's (P4) dilemma big time; his was one of my struggles in childhood.  And there we go in another tangent of relationships; a character written such that he connects to the reader/player. 

Bottom line, relationships are complex and difficult to maintain and thus even more difficult to write.  I'm sure those of you who are budding (or perhaps even pro) fiction writers have had difficulty writing relationships in your stories that are strong and convincing. 

Just give me a well-written, well-portrayed relationship.  Doesn't matter who's relating to who in what way, just as long as it's written and portrayed well. 
« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 01:08:44 PM by Dincrest » Logged

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« Reply #74 on: May 09, 2009, 02:50:26 PM »

well i seen a couple anime's with lesbian couples. one of them was particularly interesting to me because one of the characters was having a hard time accepting the fact that she is gay.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kannazuki_no_miko
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 02:58:03 PM by Alisha » Logged


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