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Author Topic: Is anyone else scared? The death of regular J-RPGs :(  (Read 5480 times)
ronhelig
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« on: June 02, 2006, 12:39:17 PM »

Is anyone else with me here, or am I just hallucinating.  All I hear is talk of online this, online that, connecting the world and people (Peter Moore can kiss my a$$).  But it sounds like the Mr. Allen was also raving about the online aspect of this next generation.  I can see it now:  Suikoden Online, Breath of Fire Online, Dragon Quest Online, Tales of (insert word here) Online, Disgaea Online, Xenosaga Online, Atelier Iris Online, Digital Devil Saga Online, Fire Emblem Online... So maybe not everyone cares about all those titles, but that's not the point.  Phantasy Star, one of the J-RPG pioneers, has been ruined for years (we'll see about Phasntasy Star Universe).  Final Fantasy XI pissed me off as we all got shafted the usual great adventure.  I can just see everyone bringing their franchises online.  I can't stand MMORPG's.  I don't know about you guys, but I want my one player J-RPG that progresses and has an ending.  I keep hearing about how Microsoft and Sony want to reach out to all the casual gamers, and I'm afraid that single player games will get left out.  I'm really nervous about it.  Am I being overly nervous for no reason, or is it the cold reality that our non-online games are a dying breed?
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Dade
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2006, 12:42:58 PM »

I dont think they're a dying breed...but you have to admit that video games aside from online content havent really evolved other than graphics and minor gameplay tweaks.

What they mean when they say the future of gaming is online is that...that's where they want to go to make video gaming evolve, but not necessarily where all games are going. There are still TONS of traditional rpgs coming out......where the fuck have you been the past six months? I got more fuckin single player RPGs in my stack of shit than I have in the past six years.

Edit: oh and speaking of MMOs.....there have been a lot of MMOs out in the past couple years, but most of the ones taht come out and succeed....have very little to do with the universe it comes from. Look at WoW....it plays nothing like the other Warcraft Games. Final Fantasy XI plays nothing like the previous FF games. All they're doing is taking a name that sells, making a new genre out of it...and releasing it to a mass of people that dont normally play video games. You have no idea the number of people that play MMOs that DON'T play console games. It's pretty surprising.

Just cause Final Fantasy XI and other RPG series are starting to release Online content doesnt mean Single Player Console RPGs are going anywhere.
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ronhelig
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2006, 01:11:30 PM »

Quote from: "Dade"
I dont think they're a dying breed...but you have to admit that video games aside from online content havent really evolved other than graphics and minor gameplay tweaks.

What they mean when they say the future of gaming is online is that...that's where they want to go to make video gaming evolve, but not necessarily where all games are going. There are still TONS of traditional rpgs coming out......where the fuck have you been the past six months? I got more fuckin single player RPGs in my stack of shit than I have in the past six years.

Edit: oh and speaking of MMOs.....there have been a lot of MMOs out in the past couple years, but most of the ones taht come out and succeed....have very little to do with the universe it comes from. Look at WoW....it plays nothing like the other Warcraft Games. Final Fantasy XI plays nothing like the previous FF games. All they're doing is taking a name that sells, making a new genre out of it...and releasing it to a mass of people that dont normally play video games. You have no idea the number of people that play MMOs that DON'T play console games. It's pretty surprising.

Just cause Final Fantasy XI and other RPG series are starting to release Online content doesnt mean Single Player Console RPGs are going anywhere.


OK, slow down killer.  First of all, I specifically said NEXT GEN rpg's.  There are a ton coming out for the PS2 right now.  It's heaven.  My fear is that the single player genre will get thinner and thinner as companies invest more of their resources online gaming.  Second of all, I think you missed the whole point of the topic.  I know their are probably millions of die hard MMORPG fans.  That's great, but I'm not one of them, and I'm not the only one.  I'm talking about one player RPG's that we play today.  I don't care if there's a FF XI as long as we get our steady stream of the usual RPG's.  It's been almost five years since we'll have a new TRUE one player Final Fantasy (once 12 reaches the states).  And heck, the last true Phantasy Star we got was on the Sega Genesis!!  They allocated all their resources online.  That's BS.  Gamers looking for a standard RPG adventure have been stranded on that series for eons.  And even though FFXIII may not be online, you know that's where the shift will be.  There will be less and less one player games as companies gradually shift to online gaming.  And I don't want to be forgotten.  If I want to mingle online, I'll sign up for AOL.  I just wondered if anyone else felt that standard RPGs will start dwindling in this next generation.
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D-Rider
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2006, 01:32:09 PM »

Single player RPGs aren't going anywhere anytime soon.  Like Dade said, and you promptly glossed over, MMORPGs and console RPGs tend to have far different fan bases.  Catering to one rabid group of gamers to the exclusion of an equally rabid group would be bad business, especially in the Land of the Rising Sun.

If anything changes in the Japanese RPG market, it'll be the death of the traditional turn-based combat scheme...and that's a change I'll take with open arms.
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ronhelig
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2006, 02:02:06 PM »

Man I didnt think Id be so misconstrued.  I was hoping for some moral support!  Traditional J-RPG's ARE turn based.  Let me rehash the games again: Final Fantasy (at least it was), Suikoden, Digital Devil Saga, Xenosaga, Breath of Fire, Atelier Iris, Disgaea, Dragon Quest, Lunar... That's a traditional RPG.  If you want to do away with that, then you're talking direct control, or the action RPG.  Action RPGs are great too.  Kingdome Hearts, Shining Force (if you care for the new ones), Ys Ark of Nephalim, Brave Fencer, Drak Cloud.  That's not what I was talking about.  Again, my fear was the slow reduction of TRADITIONAL RPGs, not action RPGs.  "ANYWAYS", to get back to my original topic, does anyone else fear that non-online RPG's will become less and less on the 360 and PS3?
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Marshmallow
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2006, 02:08:09 PM »

Suikoden online would be the shit. I'd buy that up like woah.
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ronhelig
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2006, 02:29:53 PM »

Maybe I should've posted this in the MMORPG forums.  Maybe then someone there would stay on the titled topic of "tradtional" console RPG's and offer a shred of support.  The topic was not "Aren't online RPG's great?  When are they going to take over and become the norm, not the eception?"  Can a moderator please close the thread?  I'm sorry I even started it...
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D-Rider
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2006, 02:40:03 PM »

Quote from: "ronhelig"
Action RPGs are great too.  Kingdome Hearts, Shining Force (if you care for the new ones), Ys Ark of Nephalim, Brave Fencer, Drak Cloud.  That's not what I was talking about.


Neither was I...which is why I said nothing about action RPGs.

I'm saying the days of simply choosing "Attack" from a menu are coming to a close.  Games like Valkyrie Profile make the gamer take a slightly more active role in attacking the enemies.  Xenosaga Episode II, the DDS games, and SMT:  Nocturne's battle systems revolve around using strategy to limit an enemy's ability to attack.  That's what I see happening:   a natural progression from the old Squaresoft ATB system to something far more engaging.

EDIT:  And no, the topic isn't being closed.  Every goddamn post has been on topic; you just fail to comprehend what is being said.  In fact, I think I'll pin it.
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Testament
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2006, 02:53:47 PM »

Quote
That's what I see happening: a natural progression from the old Squaresoft ATB system to something far more engaging.


I agree.

ronhelig, seems to me when you say "Traditional Turn-base" you are not talking about games like SMT: Nocturne or DDS...  you are talking about games like Final Fantasy I, Dragon Quest VIII, etc.  Games were the system broke down into Attack > Magic > Defend > Items and Escape.

Eventually they will be gone I believe...  DQVIII is the only game this generation that has featured a battle system that was such an obvious throwback.
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ronhelig
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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2006, 02:55:48 PM »

Last reply!  All those RPG's "DO" use the standard commands ATTACK, MAGIC, ITEM, FLEE, or some variation thereof.  Just because there may be more strategy to them such as the ATB system, Suikoden's one on one duels, Shadow Hearts' ring, aerial attacks, combos, tensions guage, whatever: They all still use those basic commands.  I guess this topic will get pinned, and of course it will be because I'm an idiot of course.  But all I asked (read the topic) is if anyone else feared non-online RPG's were going to eventually die away on the new systems.
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Cauton
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2006, 03:05:40 PM »

Will traditional, turn-based RPGs die out? They might, eventually - but I think that time is a far way off. Turn based RPGs still sell well, and the MMO market is quickly becoming oversaturated. I don't think there's any risk of Final Fantasy, Disgaea, Suikoden etc turning into online only franchise. There might be a MMO version of each game eventually, but no way are the developers going to abandon single player games.

The biggest reason for this is that RPGs are so story focused. It's nigh impossible to create the same kind of experience in a MMO that you get in a single player game. In the MMO content must be accesible to a wide range of players, and can't be as immersive as single player experiences. You can, for an example, not let the player change the world in any meaningful way. And you can never complete them. There will always be a demand for good, solid, single player, story and character driven gaming experiences.

It's true that some industry people have said that single player games will die out in favor of multiplayer games. But, for the most part, these people have had an invested interest in the success of online gaming.
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ronhelig
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« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2006, 03:27:26 PM »

Thank you Cauton, you just said exactly what I've been trying to say this whole time.  And beyond your anlysis, you are the first one to actually offer an opinion on what you feel the future of single player RPG's is.  That's all I asked.  Thank you.
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Professor Gast
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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2006, 03:32:38 PM »

As others have mentioned, the scenario you describe is unlikely to happen. Developing and maintaining MMORPGs can be quite expensive. While most Japanese third party publishers have released or are working on MMORPGs in one form or the other, their success has not been mindblowing. In fact, Cross Gate and Final Fantasy XI have been the only MMORPGs (Phantasy Star Online probably does not qualify as a MMORPG, but rather as an online-enabled action RPG) made in Japan that probably could be considered very successful. Square Enix's recent attempts in the online genre (Front Mission Online, the Japanese version of EverQuest 2 and Fantasy Earth: Ring of Dominion did not perform well in Japan, while Shenmue Online and Ys Online have been hit by numerous delays). Koei's Nobunaga's Ambition Online had some success in Japan.

As far as next-generation RPGs are concerned, it is far too early to tell, really. Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy Versus XIII probably will only have minor online features. Bandai Namco, Konami, Gust, Nippon Ichi, Hudson, Idea Factory, From Software and Cavia have yet to announce any details regarding their PlayStation 3-based RPG offerings, but I would be surprised, if there was a MMORPG among them.

I'm also not aware of any major online components in Sakaguchi's Xbox 360 offerings (Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey) either. Same counts for the already released eNchartArm and Tengai Makyou Ziria.

What you can already witness, when looking at the current generation of hardware however is a trend which has indeed reduced the number of classic, traditional turn-based RPGs compared to a rising number of games with real-time battle systems and action RPGs on the one hand, and strategy RPGs on the other. That trend probably will continue on the next generation of hardware as well.
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Eusis
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2006, 04:09:23 PM »

Quote from: "ronhelig"
"ANYWAYS", to get back to my original topic, does anyone else fear that non-online RPG's will become less and less on the 360 and PS3?

On the XBox 360? Ah hahaha. I think we have more announced, upcoming RPGs for the XBox 360 than there ever were in the lifespan of the XBox. So that's not a concern.

Honestly, my worry has been more that Japanese RPGs were fine... but American RPGs that aren't in the vain of Diablo/Gauntlet were fucked. There's a fair bit revealed at this E3, and this is probably an argument better left to more dedicated computer gamers, but there's seemingly countless MMOs being released, and no normal computer RPGs. I suspect part of the problem is that unlike console RPGs, it's not as huge of a leap for more than a few computer RPGs to MMORPGs. Most of them have you create your own character, take on quests, etc. Hell, something like Oblivion would probably work largely the same as an MMO with some modifications.

What Gast said is more of a concern to me, the advent of action RPGs and strategy RPGs. But if more action RPGs could follow in the footsteps of Secret of Mana, I wouldn't really mind those. Strategy RPGs however rarely grab me, so bleh.

Edit: DR owns for stickying this in response to the thread lock request. Fuck, those piss me off. :P
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Losfer
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2006, 05:07:41 PM »

Quote from: "Eusis"
Edit: DR owns for stickying this in response to the thread lock request. Fuck, those piss me off. :P


Agreed and agreed.

hay someone disagrees with me so i dont wanna talk about it anymore LOCK THE TOPIC !

Yes, great counter arguement.

To answer your question, yes, you are indeed being overly nervous.  Just because we are getting Phantasy Star Online and Grandia Online and Tales Online doesn't mean we are gonna lose any of our *wretch* J-RPGs.  I mean, we got Final fantasy XI, right?  It's online, okay.  But yet, Final Fantasy XII is almost here.  And Final Fantasy XIII.  So it's not like the FF series is going to be destroyed.  Well, anymore than it already has.  ZING!

Anyway, my point is that if you don't like the online versions of games, just...  Don't...  Play them!  :D!
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