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Author Topic: Black Sigil: Blade of the Exiled for DS. Anyone have updates?  (Read 20108 times)
Animage
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« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2009, 03:31:03 PM »

Story and Music alone make a game worth trudging through.

Definately making monday harder and harder to come faster.

I hate UPS.
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Blace
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« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2009, 03:34:26 PM »

Story and Music alone make a game worth trudging through.

Man do I disagree with that. If the gameplay is terrible, there is absolutely no way I am playing through a game no matter what. The game not being a graphical mess (meaning the technical aspects, not the graphics being pretty) is also way more important than the music.
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Animage
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« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2009, 03:39:39 PM »

I said trudging through, not solely relying on them to make it through the game.

Obviously if other aspects can't even hold their own weight, it'd be too difficult to care that a story is even present.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2009, 03:45:13 PM »

Animage, given what you've said in this thread (mainly about enjoying level grinding), I definitely think you'd like Black Sigil.  The gameplay isn't broken in any way, but it will be frustrating and/or tedious to those with more modern RPG sensibilities.  Black Sigil is 16-bit old-school, warts and all.  

For me, it's the story and characters that's carrying me through some of those gameplay warts.  I warn ya, the story is a slow burner.  It takes a good handful of hours before it really gets started. 
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Animage
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« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2009, 03:52:33 PM »

Animage, given what you've said in this thread (mainly about enjoying level grinding), I definitely think you'd like Black Sigil.  The gameplay isn't broken in any way, but it will be frustrating and/or tedious to those with more modern RPG sensibilities.  Black Sigil is 16-bit old-school, warts and all.  

For me, it's the story and characters that's carrying me through some of those gameplay warts.  I warn ya, the story is a slow burner.  It takes a good handful of hours before it really gets started. 

I was supposed to have it yesterday, but the UPS truck marked it as a wrong address.  Never once had a problem before, but at least a simple call fixed it once I supplied them with the tracking number.  Of course, now I have to wait til Monday because they don't handle weekend deliverys.

I'm only slightly worried about some of the money issues in the game, as I don't like forced grinding in order to afford things, I'd rather choose to grind for my own enjoyment.

Reading over at gamefaqs, seems alot of people have similar freeze points/glitches.  From the little blurbs though the games looking at 40 hours if you fulfill the sidequests, which slightly worries me.  Worried about how much of that time is good story elements, and how much could possilbly be somewhat lame fetch quests that don't involve you at all, since this is a throwback era RPG.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2009, 07:47:15 PM »

When I balked at some of the armor prices, I just said "to hell with it" and tried to go as far as I could with minimal grinding for upgrades, and am doing just fine so far.  So I wouldn't sweat it too much. 

Remember, I just came off of Crimson Gem Saga where equipment was expensive, but made a noticeable difference if you had it on.  Black Sigil, less so.  In other words, I haven't hit any glaring balance issues so far. 

Battling has been fun for me, though I wish enemies dropped more loot so I feel like I'm fighting for a reward than just for the sake of fighting. 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 07:51:10 PM by Dincrest » Logged

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blackthirteen
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« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2009, 09:20:06 PM »

Battling has been fun for me, though I wish enemies dropped more loot so I feel like I'm fighting for a reward than just for the sake of fighting. 

Well this couldn't be worst than Chrono Cross for this aspect, I think battles in Chrono Cross were pointless due to the lack of experience system and bonuses.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 09:33:18 PM by blackthirteen » Logged
MeshGearFox
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« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2009, 09:33:15 PM »

Battles aren't for rewards. Battles are for killing things and being obstacles. If you're doing battle for the XP rewards you're doing it wrong.

Admittedly, I can't really think of many RPGs that I thought had really engaging battle systems.

Also, I played this game for like ten minutesat a good buddy's house and it seemed pretty much like any generic SNES RPG, which is completely the intent, I know, but that makes it utterly unappealing to me :(
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« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2009, 09:37:42 PM »

Battles aren't for rewards. Battles are for killing things and being obstacles. If you're doing battle for the XP rewards you're doing it wrong.

Admittedly, I can't really think of many RPGs that I thought had really engaging battle systems.

Also, I played this game for like ten minutesat a good buddy's house and it seemed pretty much like any generic SNES RPG, which is completely the intent, I know, but that makes it utterly unappealing to me :(

I disagree with you, experience and bonuses is what making battles interesting. A good example is Final Fantasy 7, it was very addicting to hear that special sound each time a materia orb climbed level.

Of course battles are obstacle, but most of the time they become recurring, that's why an experience system spice the whole thing. Well, that's my opinion.

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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2009, 09:44:17 PM »

Interesting gameplay makes battles interesting.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2009, 01:03:39 AM »

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Battles aren't for rewards. Battles are for killing things and being obstacles. If you're doing battle for the XP rewards you're doing it wrong.

This is exactly right.  I loved Chrono Cross because I never had to grind; three battles after getting each boss star and you were DONE with the leveling nonsense.  Extra fights after that were for elements or materials, there was no need to grind for hours to clear a boss or "get up to speed" in an area.  That's what all RPG's should ultimately strive to achieve.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2009, 09:36:16 AM »

Even if a game has the best battle system in the world, if there's a battle every 3-5 steps I don't want to be a few pennies short for a new sword when I reach town.  And perhaps I'm more motivated by the pleasure of possession than more spiritual or altruistic rewards.  It's like in that episode of Beavis & Butthead where they defibrillated a fat man, Butthead says, "whoa Beavis, we're heroes.  We saved a life... and we got 11 bucks out of his shorts." 

And don't forget, Chrono Cross also allowed you to see your enemies beforehand so you could more easily pick and choose your battles.  In a throwback game like Black Sigil, you don't get to pick and choose your battles the way you can in some of the more modern RPGs out there. 

In a beat 'em up like, say, Streets of Rage I just like to fight for the sake of fighting.  I don't care about high scores, I just want to indiscriminately beat enemies up. 

After more play, I still think the encounter rate is too high and the save point rate is too low.  The other old-school aspects (like party members only carrying limited items into battle) I can overlook, but the aforementioned two biggies are really hard to. 
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2009, 09:45:40 AM »

Gen, funny you should mention that!

Despite what the status menu said, you didn't have any stats in Secret of Mana. You had attack power that reflected your current weapon and defense which reflected your current armor, but nothing like strength, speed, etc. And the game worked fine without it (well, except for the shoddy hit detection and bad AI and, and, and...). It also made grinding fairly useless, since only HP and MP would increase, and these things weren't hugely advantageous.

Here's something interesting, you know. In a lot of Square RPGs, what your stats do is fairly mystifying. Well, JRPGs in general. Maybe it's just because half the time they do odd things like "Name magic defense charisma!" but I swear that the SGF, Usaga, and the chrono games are the only square games where all those little numbers are meaningful to me.

Atlus is pretty good about transparency, here (and, well, lots of other places, really).

Quote
And don't forget, Chrono Cross also allowed you to see your enemies beforehand so you could more easily pick and choose your battles.  In a throwback game like Black Sigil, you don't get to pick and choose your battles the way you can in some of the more modern RPGs out there.

See, if Black Sigil is basically a CT homage in every other sense, WHY did they go with random encounters? That's just odd to me. Especially since *set* enemy patterns in the non-random battles was entirely unique to CT and a really good idea.

Additionally, I think the main problem with save points is that they're inconsistent. In something like DQ, where you save at the inns, well, they're still technically save points, but you pretty much always know where they are, and never have to wonder something like "Well gee will THIS dungeon have a save point and where?"

Save points when specifically used as a checkpoint/progress pacing system CAN work but you've got to have a really steady hand at dungeon designs for that and I mean, modern-day Atlus, again, is the only company that's really doing that much lately. I mean like, the Obelisk in SMT:N probably had eight or so terminals in it, but they were all in reasonable places. Also there were eight of them and they let you teleport out if things got really bad making the two pass (Get items and explore, then go back and kill bosses) method really doable if that's what you wanted to do.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 09:51:27 AM by MeshGearFox » Logged

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Jet16
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« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2009, 11:36:36 AM »

So, uh, how's the game? Sounds interesting, I assume I'll be right at home if I'm craving something rather archaic.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2009, 07:05:50 PM »

It's not a bad RPG.  The story and music are its strongest aspects.  If you can live with a battle every 3-5 steps, have fun.  I don't know what more I can say about it except that it's a throwback, warts and all.  Sure some of those warts can be construed as charming old-school quirks/foibles, but some of those warts are just warts.  Warts that were bad game design then and are bad game design now.   

I have encountered a few glitches and bugs, though.  I haven't had anything freeze or lock up my game (I've been at it for almost 10 hours), but I have seen a menu glitch here and there and every so often Kairu will enter a battle with multiple stat ailments despite being equipped with an anti-whatever charm. 

In a nutshell, I want to like this game a lot more than I actually do. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 07:12:54 PM by Dincrest » Logged

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