Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 26, 2014, 03:17:27 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
RPGFan Community Quiz!
Persona 3 FES Quiz is now OVER!
Winner was user: Monsoon!
334853 Posts in 13711 Topics by 2200 Members
Latest Member: Rgeneb1
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  RPGFan Message Boards
|-+  Media
| |-+  Single-Player RPGs
| | |-+  More characters need to die boring deaths...
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Print
Author Topic: More characters need to die boring deaths...  (Read 9468 times)
Gen Eric Gui
Posts: 2302


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2009, 05:14:07 PM »

I've always considered in-battle HP to be more of a representation of your ability to deal with attacks either through withstanding them or taking near-misses or whatever.  In the case of magic I usually attribute it to your characters being able to shield against the spell in some way.  We have to remember that, 9 time out of 10, the effects in battle are just representations, and not what's actually happening.  Real combat isn't just two guys standing there throwing solid blows to each other's faces, there's a lot of attack deflections and dodges, not to mention close hits and shallow cuts of all sorts.  When you're out of HP, you just couldn't play ball anymore and got whacked unconscious/couldn't fully defend from the spell/whatever.

Meanwhile, when you get stabbed, you get stabbed.
Logged
eXaX
Posts: 99


Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2009, 05:34:07 PM »

I would love to see a insanely strong character (you know, the Auron-type of a character) to just die, right there and then.

Just be walking with the characters down the street after buying some apples and then BAM, he falls down. No dialogue, no pleas for help, no nothing. Just fall down.
But for every character to just "wh00ps, lol, fell downz"

Absolutely not.

Truthfully to me it's about how his/hers death is written and the things happening before their demise that make their deaths either cliché as hell or awesome as hell.
Logged

Lord Scottish
Posts: 1130


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2009, 05:42:06 PM »

Just posting here to say I want Emil from ToS2 to die. I don't care how.
Logged
MeshGearFox
Posts: 8623


HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2009, 05:49:42 PM »

Quote
Well, yes. But the question remains why getting hit by "mega spell of destruction" only causes you to pass out, versus some dude stabbing you in the back, which causes you to die forever.

It's because JRPGs rarely connect the gameplay side of things with the story side of things and trying to apply logic to it usually just turns out poorly.
Logged

o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Alisha
Posts: 2739


Member
*

Z0eila@hotmail.com Z0eila
View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2009, 07:46:37 PM »

in my opinion rpg deaths are meaningless unless you have a gameplay attachment to the character. in grandia 2 when mareg dies it actually hurts because he was the best damage dealer. in phantasy star 4 and ff7 the deaths of aeris and alys were meaningless. aeris death was meaningless because anyone can equip heal/cure materia. in phantasy star 4 by the time alys dies you can sorta see it coming because her usefulness has been starting to wane for a while.
Logged


“Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from.”
Dincrest
Spectrum
RPGFan Editor
Posts: 11886


Stumpy McGunder- thumps

Member
*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2009, 08:29:11 PM »

Along with the RPG cliche of "character survives falls off cliffs and meteor spells, but gets permanently killed by a knife due to a plot point" isn't there one that if a character gains levels more quickly, s/he is most likely to die?  I still remember in Phantasy Star 2 where Nei gained levels like a fiend and the star that burned the brightest got snuffed out first

But my favorite death scene in PhanStar II was
Code:
when Darum killed his daughter Tiem then killed himself.  Hit me like a sucker punch.
It was dramatic, but not melodramatic and I found it rather shocking.  The only witnesses were Rolf and company and the text said something like
Code:
this is but one of the many casualties in this troubled world.  God help us all.
Logged

Next bike-a-thon: Diabetes Tour-de-Cure 2015
Danakir
Posts: 99


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2009, 08:34:45 PM »

I hate to say this, but boring deaths are, well, boring. The arbitrary rarely makes for a good plot, as much as it might reflect the actual reality of human condition.

Certainly the fact that all deaths must be meaningful might be dramatically convenient, but it's nigh unescapable, unless you're trying to foster some sort of message about the absurdity and cruelty of life.

Do we really want Nihilism: The RPG?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 08:37:06 PM by Danakir » Logged

~My melody of life, rhyming to memento mori...
Dincrest
Spectrum
RPGFan Editor
Posts: 11886


Stumpy McGunder- thumps

Member
*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2009, 08:35:52 PM »

Wasn't Xenosaga the nihilism RPG? :P

But I think the issue is when deaths are melodramatic.  Dramatic is good, but over-emoting like a Bollywood flick is cheesy.
Logged

Next bike-a-thon: Diabetes Tour-de-Cure 2015
Danakir
Posts: 99


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2009, 08:36:27 PM »

I shee what you did thar.

I get your point, but death is a very delicate subject where the line between drama and melodrama is at once thin and subjective.

Then again, many videogames tend to kill a character off merely for the sake of having a death scene, which rather than make it melodramatic, worse, makes it pointless.

If you're going to try for that kind of scene, then at least make it meaningful.

It'll be much easier then to buy into the melodrama if there's something at stake.

Be it within the story or through the player's own personal emotional attachment, of course.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 08:40:56 PM by Danakir » Logged

~My melody of life, rhyming to memento mori...
Prime Mover
Posts: 2798


All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio

Member
*

Shattre
View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2009, 04:48:18 AM »

I guess the problem with that is that the player's natural attachment to the character (through gameplay) is very different from that of other characters. Making the game harder because a character dies may be an interesting start, since the party may be facing similar hardships, however, simply doing that in the place of doing something emotionally enticing is sort of... weird. Basically, you're making the player feel bad about killing a character because they can't use him, where-as they SHOULD be feeling bad because they miss him. Those are two very different things, one being purely functional, the other emotional. You can't supplant one with the other. The storytellers want you to CRY, not to be pissed off because you have to reconstruct your strategy. That's kinda creepy, actually. It's like a kid going, "Shit, dad died, now I won't get my weekly allowance anymore"
Logged


eelhouse.net
- order the new album

Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 2, Trails in the Sky, Bioshock: Infinite
Currently Listening to: Devin Townsend, Dream Theater
Watching: Star Trek: TOS, Slayers, Doctor Who (as usual)
Aeolus
This is the Monado's Powerbomb!
Posts: 6459


Little did he know, the fall damage would KO him.

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2009, 05:14:38 AM »

.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 07:00:39 PM by KillerArmoire » Logged

In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.
Ithunn
Posts: 186


Hmph.

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2009, 11:51:33 AM »

But I think the issue is when deaths are melodramatic.  Dramatic is good, but over-emoting like a Bollywood flick is cheesy.

Excuse me, I love Bollywood flicks.

Besides, what service does a boring death serve other than being boring? I suppose if you're asking for more realistic deaths and/or general realism in some of your games, that certainly is one of the first places to start. I'm trying to put some of the more dramatic death scenes from RPGs into boring situations, and it just isn't clicking.

Logged
MeshGearFox
Posts: 8623


HERE ON RUM ISLAND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN RUM!

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2009, 05:48:48 PM »

What about irrelevant deaths?

Usually when a character dies in a JRPG, it's some sort of noble sacrifice. What if they're gunned down in the line of duty... but... well, their death was meaningless and just serves to disturb the other PCs?
Logged

o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Ramza
Enjoying Retirement
Editor Emeritus
Posts: 9324


Member
*

TSDPatGann
View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2009, 05:53:27 PM »

Usually when a character dies in a JRPG, it's some sort of noble sacrifice. What if they're gunned down in the line of duty... but... well, their death was meaningless and just serves to disturb the other PCs?

No SPECIFICS come to mind, but I know I've seen that in many an RPG.
Logged

kyuusei
Mr. Lightning Bolt
Administrator
Posts: 9415


Blame the dragoon.

Member
*


View Profile
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2009, 06:20:32 PM »

On the topic of P3, I liked how you could take your character to go to the bathroom. I always wondered how in other RPGs the characters could go on forever without nature ever rearing it's ugly head.
Didn't Zidane or someone tinkle in FF9? :P

That's what I like about P3, it's realistic in that way. In all these RPGs these characters just up and leave their everyday lives to fight the evil du jour. In Persona 3 (..and I guess 4, but I haven't played it yet :P) you still have said everyday life and maintaining friendships with people not necessary a part of your party.

As for boring deaths.. yeah, I got nothing. Other than it would be funny for like five minutes then I'd get kinda pissed. :P
Logged

NANOMACHINES, SON.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!