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Subject: Persona 3: FES
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Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: Final Parties and Boss Battles  (Read 4535 times)
Dincrest
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2009, 09:01:45 PM »

Black Sigil has a couple of scenes where the entourage gets separated and you have to play portions of the story as different parties.  I like that.  I haven't seen that in a long time and I like seeing the world and storylines from different perspectives. The whole "let's split up, gang" thing.
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magusgs
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2009, 09:02:47 PM »

I really don't like when characters come and go.

AT2 did this and it annoyed me to no end.

I do like boss battles that have some challenge, but if they are too much of a pain in the ass I'll put the game away and play something else.

Many RPG's tend to have the final boss that constantly heals and can damage all of your party members in one hit.
Unless the story is good enough where I want to see the ending, I'll move on to something else.

Ar Tonelico 2 actually did it right, I think.  Characters came and went but you always knew they'd be back, and meanwhile the reserve characters leveled with your party.  Reyvateils leaving scrapped any plans you might've had to fight optional "bosses" for the moment, but all you had to do was progress the plot a bit and you'd have a full party to do the optional stuff.  It restricted your "freedom" a bit, but that's not what I play JRPGs for anyway.  It was a price I was wiling to play for a more dynamic storyline.
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2009, 09:45:46 PM »

I have OCD about leveling up my party members and making sure they're all the same levels - just in case I'm forced to use one by surprise, so I prefer smaller parties for that reason alone.

Suikoden games take me weeks to play.
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2009, 09:50:14 PM »

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DQ7 did it the worst; spend dozens of hours gaining job levels only to lose characters.

From what I remember Kiefer is the only character that permanently leaves your party, and that's way before the job system opens up.

While Kiefer is the only one of your six party members to never return you still have five other characters to juggle in and out of a four man party at the end of the game. Unfortunately, both Maribel and Melvin will leave for long stretches of time and Aira doesn't show until near the end of the 11th hour anyways leaving those three to be significantly weaker than either the Hero or Gabo.
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« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2009, 12:08:35 AM »

I have OCD about leveling up my party members and making sure they're all the same levels - just in case I'm forced to use one by surprise, so I prefer smaller parties for that reason alone.

Suikoden games take me weeks to play.

And yet Suikoden games solve that problem easily with their relative EXP system.  There's no reason to keep allies evenly leveled because a single fight brings them up to speed if they're behind.  In the first game, when they throw Krin into your party near the endgame and he's level 7, he's level 50 like the rest of your party in TWO fights.

There is no need for silly level grinding in Suikoden.  None.
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Tomara
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« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2009, 02:54:57 AM »

Villgust did something really weird. There were basically switched between two parties several times, only the hero was always there. And in the final dungeon...

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the party members left the hero one by one and the hero had to fight the final battle alone.

It's a good thing that game wasn't very difficult and new equipment could always be found at just the right time. I doubt I would have finished it if that hadn't been the case.
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« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2009, 04:35:52 AM »

I have OCD about leveling up my party members and making sure they're all the same levels - just in case I'm forced to use one by surprise, so I prefer smaller parties for that reason alone.

Suikoden games take me weeks to play.

And yet Suikoden games solve that problem easily with their relative EXP system.  There's no reason to keep allies evenly leveled because a single fight brings them up to speed if they're behind.  In the first game, when they throw Krin into your party near the endgame and he's level 7, he's level 50 like the rest of your party in TWO fights.

There is no need for silly level grinding in Suikoden.  None.
I wish more games did this.  In this day and age, there should be no reason to have to grind to bring low leveled characters up to speed.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2009, 05:06:23 PM »

I think experience levels are sort of an outdated concept in general, really. Just give the player stat points/skill points/let them learn new skills/whatever at pre-determined plot points or for completing a certain number of/a certain specific side quest(s).
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« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2009, 05:35:10 PM »

I think experience levels are sort of an outdated concept in general, really. Just give the player stat points/skill points/let them learn new skills/whatever at pre-determined plot points or for completing a certain number of/a certain specific side quest(s).

I also feel that in most modern games, that experience levels are mostly there just to be there. Most games don't require grinding like in the old games, so it's more or less just an indicator on how far you are in the game.

That's why I like skill point based systems, you feel like you have more control over your characters and there is more reason to battle random battles if you're constantly being rewarded with skill points.
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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2009, 06:37:29 PM »

Are we talking like "AP"? Or are you talking about doing away with leveling/experience points entirely?
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« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2009, 08:33:40 PM »

Experience levels give you a solid, numerical indicator of how powerful your party/character is.  You can take it as a gauge of "how far you are in the game" but for many gamers, it's a lot more than that.

There are all kinds of uses for them, as well.  Lost Odyssey used it as a limiter, only allowing your level to go so high in a given area to make sure the player stayed on their toes.  Games like Fatal Frame use EXP levels as a reward for playing well and to grant the player extra powers they wouldn't normally have.  Dungeon crawlers like Class of Heroes use them as a gauge for a given character's personal growth.  And I'm sure there are other ways they've been used over the years that I'm simply not remembering at the moment.

While I certainly enjoy an occasional break from them (As is evidenced by my love for Chrono Cross and the SaGa games) there's a reason they've been around for as long as they have, and for why they're crossing over into other genres(Because they work and are an effective tool).  They're not going anywhere.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2009, 08:40:18 PM »

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While I certainly enjoy an occasional break from them (As is evidenced by my love for Chrono Cross and the SaGa games) there's a reason they've been around for as long as they have, and for why they're crossing over into other genres(Because they work and are an effective tool).  They're not going anywhere.

Well, okay. CC gave you slight bonuses for like doing one or two battles per star level, but essentially in CC you got experience levels after beating a story boss and nowhere else much.

Or have experience levels but do it like Morrowind where an experience level is some DERIVED thing based on various other forms of character advancement. Like, applied to the SaGa system, every x number of total stat points gained across all stats amounts to a new "level."
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2009, 11:59:54 AM »

the only time i didn't mind losing party members was in FF8 because there was a logical reason/s for it. however in ff9 it really got on my nerves. freya was really the only character i gave a dam about and you lose her for an extended period of time.
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