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Hidoshi
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« on: July 07, 2009, 12:24:04 AM »

Related: http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5650SW20090707

So it's on. Now that we've had Tibet up in arms time and again throughout the last 50 or so years, it's the Uighur's turn to be angry. Colonisation, exploitation, loss of cultural identity, and strong opinions about Han nationalism: What's really going on?

I'm hesitant to post about this because of the strong opinions I have about the current Chinese administration. China has become a country known for a kind of special capitalism, strong nationalism, and sadly, very few manners. That's where I stand on the issue. Despite my bias against the Chinese government, I bring this up because last year someone else said that the Tibetans were exaggerating their plight, because neither the Uighurs nor the other ethnic minorities took any such violent action.

Well, now they have.

This frames the Tibetans in a rather potent light, as well as the other ethnic groups in China. Is Han nationalism too strong, and is governmental preference too biased? Signs point to yes. When one man stands up and declares he's being mistreated, he may have a problem of perspective. When another man who has little relationship with the other does the same, it's time to start considering the reality of things.

I don't mean to demonise China mind you; I'm aware the government does do some positive things for the Han Chinese. But this isn't about the Han Chinese. It's about everybody else. What is the international community's responsibility here? Do we simply let things go, or do we say something?

The Uighurs are in a more difficult position than the Tibetans too: They don't have a lot of international visibility, nor a publically potent leader like the Dalai Lama. The fact is that between the Taiwanese government (representing a questionable but still valid opposition), the Tibetan community both at home and in exile (representing a valid and popular opposition), and the Uighur ethnic group (representing a valid and unpopular opposition), it seems the PRC has a bit to answer for.
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2009, 01:28:19 AM »

It's premature to say anything about it... yet.

Still, there's no question about outsider behavior in China. Hell, you still have it in developed countries, it's absolutely going to be worse in a less developed one.

There's no real easy solution to this problem, as anyone who talks about freedom and independence aren't considering possible political, economic, and international ramifications such actions would bring. If I recall, there was talk about Texas seceding from the U.S. a while back and everyone basically lambasted them. Imagine if the rest of the international community called the U.S. oppressive tyrants for not allowing it (had it actually gone to such a level) - not only would it be completely untrue, it would be completely unfair. Of course, these are different cases, but it's just something to think about.

And Mark, I know you don't know much about Taiwan, but I have to tell you, the Taiwanese government is deeply racist against people who weren't born in the country. They've denied pension, citizenship, and all sorts of other rights to 'non-native' Taiwanese, as well as private organizations (such as credit card companies) refusing credit/services to non-natives. That, and having a (now ex) president who has embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxpayer money, makes Taiwan far, far from a virtuous opposition. Of course, barely anybody in the west really knows that stuff. Three guesses as to why that is. So any claims as to Taiwan's valid opposition are greatly exaggerated.

This is more a problem with the nature of people rather than a government administration, to me - people believing they can wall out others and still think they are in the right.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 01:31:04 AM by Leyviur » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2009, 06:04:25 AM »

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This is more a problem with the nature of people rather than a government administration, to me - people believing they can wall out others and still think they are in the right.

It's easy to say that though. The fact is that yes, every society does this to a degree, but the degree is important in and of itself. You do have to have social harmony, but a right to representation must be guaranteed, not to mention an effort on the part of the legislature to -- if not promote -- ensure the continued stability of an ethnic minority. The PRC's track record has not been particularly healthy in this regard.

As to allegations levelled at Taiwan -- I'll discuss that in depth another time. Taiwan is still a valid form of opposition. Not perhaps virtuous, but no worse in stature than the PRC has been. You may want to note that Chen Shui-Bian is in fact being tried by the Taiwanese government, and rather effectively. Just because Nixon was a crook doesn't make the entire bureaucracy corrupt. :P

Anyhow... If we relegate the matter to human nature, it relieves people of actual responsibility. I can understand not wanting to go against the authorities of one's home culture, but this kind of repeated, long-standing social negligence by the PRC has to resonate somewhere.
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2009, 06:15:32 AM »

It's easy to say that though. The fact is that yes, every society does this to a degree, but the degree is important in and of itself. You do have to have social harmony, but a right to representation must be guaranteed, not to mention an effort on the part of the legislature to -- if not promote -- ensure the continued stability of an ethnic minority. The PRC's track record has not been particularly healthy in this regard.
I'm saying this as someone who is the victim of racism on both sides of the Pacific - I'm well aware of what you're saying, and I fully agree with the intent of it, but we both know that rarely, if ever, do things work that way.

As to allegations levelled at Taiwan -- I'll discuss that in depth another time. Taiwan is still a valid form of opposition. Not perhaps virtuous, but no worse in stature than the PRC has been. You may want to note that Chen Shui-Bian is in fact being tried by the Taiwanese government, and rather effectively. Just because Nixon was a crook doesn't make the entire bureaucracy corrupt. :P
No, but everything else the bureaucracy does makes it corrupt. My argument wasn't that just CSB was a crook, but that Taiwan is guilty of the exact same things as you're talking about now. :P

Anyhow... If we relegate the matter to human nature, it relieves people of actual responsibility. I can understand not wanting to go against the authorities of one's home culture, but this kind of repeated, long-standing social negligence by the PRC has to resonate somewhere.
I'm not relieving anyone of responsibility. If anything I'm leveling more blame on people as a whole rather than the government(s). Governments can't really do anything that'll just piss off the majority, so if the majority are uncaring in the minority's plight, then it's just as much the people's fault as the governments. Social negligence BEGINS on a personal level, and it extends into the government because the government is run by people. I'm not defending anything here, rather, I'm saying that both the western and eastern views of these things are terribly extremist on opposite ends; almost always, the truth is nearer to the middle than we'd like to believe.

As an example, people in the west largely regard Singapore as a police state that has instituted martial law against its citizens - mainly due to a few game censorships and that whole caning incident a few years back. Having lived there for two years, I can say that it's all bullshit.
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2009, 09:24:59 AM »

Well I think it's pretty obvious that the international community will say "you really should give them their rights" and then drop the whole thing since it's China.
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2009, 11:39:20 AM »

One thing I'd like to add is for anybody interested in this sort of thing to do your research before you speak(Not referring to any particular person here). My problem is that a lot of people wear freedom like some sort of badge against evil intentions. It's this sort of dismissing brick-wall attitude that separates people.

Free Tibet is probably the biggest example of this, it's not simply "Chinese government oppressing the natives" like people always try to make it out to be. Trying to get people to join your side with twisted truths or even straight-up lies doesn't get you anywhere, it just makes your opposition even more determined to take you down. Given Tibet's history, I find it pretty silly that people treat it as though the Chinese somehow made things worse than they used to be- the worst you can say is that Chinese ownership in Tibet is similar to what the US is doing with Iraq- except with much greater success.

Really, Tibet's just a fucking mess- it's a real headache of a situation and I can't think of any easy solutions to it.

As far as Taiwan goes, their whole government system is screwed up. It really is a corrupt system, and one look at any political debate on a Taiwan news station shows that instantly. The politicians there act with no dignity whatsoever, except maybe President Ma Ying-jeou, who really fills most people watching him with nothing but anger because despite his aim to act like someone that is clean of corruption, he doesn't DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. You get CSB out of office, and this is really the best you can do?

Oh yeah, going back to the no-dignity comment, tell me if any other country has their politicians accusing stupid things like homosexuality and legitimate money-grubbing (A paradox of course, which is the exact problem because Taiwan's system sucks) as legitimate arguments.

I have a great deal of respect for Dr. Sun Yat-Sen, and I believe for him to be one of the few people in recent Chinese history to have a powerful ideal of happiness in life for the people. Given this, I firmly believe that if given the choice, he would certainly choose current-day PRC over the ROC. ROC's actions are constantly there to encourage conflict between people.

I don't really have much to say about Xin Jiang though, since I haven't read as much about this incident yet.

EDIT: Having read some material, and having watched both English and Chinese news stations, I'll try to give some things I've learned.

Quote
Despite my bias against the Chinese government, I bring this up because last year someone else said that the Tibetans were exaggerating their plight, because neither the Uighurs nor the other ethnic minorities took any such violent action.

Yeah, that is certainly a very incorrect statement. Racial tensions will always exist in any country, and the Uighurs have always had many tensions with the Han Chinese, much like how the many races of the United States have tensions with each other. The difference is that it has never been such a jaw-dropping outbreak of violence over them, and this sort of violence is certainly not the norm in Xing Jiang obviously, or there'd be no news to report.

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Is Han nationalism too strong, and is governmental preference too biased? Signs point to yes.

Signs point to yes if you're talking about government preference for the minorities. I'm not saying what the Chinese government does is all right and good, but they do allow many benefits to minorities in their territories, both the Uighurs and the Tibetians, including but not limited to the lack of enforcement of the one-child policy, among other things, like guaranteeing spots in schools (no different than what the US does for say, Native Americans, really). As a note, the same treatment is done towards natives in Taiwan.

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But this isn't about the Han Chinese. It's about everybody else. What is the international community's responsibility here? Do we simply let things go, or do we say something?

If we say anything, it's to this woman who we allow to live under our noses who incites violence in an area of the country that is normally peaceful. I doubt you think that all the Uighurs are unsatisfied with their treatment- there's plenty of Uighurs I've seen on television that say what all of us should be saying, why is there such an unnecessary outbreak of violence? This isn't even attacking some responsible party, this is attacking innocent people, and somehow it's the Han Chinese's fault that they have people pissed off that they have dead men, women and children on their hands?

Not to say responding to violence with violence is a good thing, which is why this whole curfew thing was put into place. It's no different than the US's response to 9/11 was. Overboard? Probably. But can you really say they're doing what is wrong here? My problem with a lot of Western media is that they have to nitpick every decision the ROC has done to try to stop the bloodshed- that should be the first priority here, to stop violence.

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Colonisation, exploitation, loss of cultural identity, and strong opinions about Han nationalism: What's really going on?

I ask you to clarify these things with more specific examples please. What exactly do you mean by colonization? You mean the fact that Han Chinese are occupying a territory that have for hundred of years (Since Qing dynasty, because China owned it during the Han dynasty but lost a couple hundred years later and then got it back), and somehow now it's become a problem? As a note, the Uighurs arn't even the real "natives" of the area if you want to get down to it- the Uighurs were originally from Mongolia, if I'm not mistaken. The real natives of the Xin Jiang area were melted into the Han Chinese a long time ago. Er, actually, the real natives make up approximately 7% of the population there. Both the Han Chinese and the Uighur have some degree of melting with these actual natives over hundreds of years, but they still are three very distinct groups. If you want to make an argument, it's no more the "Uighur's land" than it is the "Han Chinese's land", which is a key difference between this place and Tibet. I often hear people make the argument that the Tibetans deserve their own homeland (Still a flawed argument, but the point is that even this one isn't valid here), but the Uighur arn't native to the Xin Jiang area at all- they're the majority, but only by like, 3-4%. You can just as easily make the argument that this is the Han Chinese's land because they were there earlier than the Uighur were.

Exploitation- like I said, need you to clarify because I'm not too sure what you mean here.

I'm not sure how you can claim their losing their cultural identity so much as the fact that they're being a melting pot and somehow they now have a problem with it. There's nothing stopping anyone from going and learning about their own culture if they wanted to, unless part of that culture involves talking about inciting conflict, which is a big problem. You don't see any African Americans going back to Africa to learn about their culture having no problem with someone implying that an ancient tradition of keeping slaves is a good thing, because it's not, which is why these things have changed over the years. You see plenty of cultures here at the US saying that they're losing much of their cultural identity in the name of political correctness, except they don't start killing people over it.

And Han nationalism, well, I can't deny that Han Chinese often have a very stubborn blind dedication to their own nation, much like, say, every other nation in the damn world. It's just as irritating seeing it anywhere else in the world. =P
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 12:48:35 AM by Hathen » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2009, 08:46:14 PM »

The Xinjiang riots began because some Han people killed two Uighurs because of some stupid rumor started by a coworker of those two about how they raped and killed a Han woman. Eventually, Uighurs began killing innocent Hans uninvolved with the murder, while blaming the government for not protecting their rights, even after the man who originally started the rumor (and the people who killed the Uighurs) were apprehended. The majority of the over 100 people dead are reported to be Han Chiense uninvolved with the initial conflict. So basically, the Uighurs started killing innocent people over what was originally a private dispute.

I have to say, in every other civilized country in the world, this would be called nothing less than terrorism. Why are people assuming it's some heroic revolution now?
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2009, 09:58:33 PM »

I'm not even going to try to keep up with you all, but I'll say that Turkish people have some horrible luck when it comes to racism.
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2009, 03:50:21 AM »

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The Xinjiang riots began because some Han people killed two Uighurs because of some stupid rumor started by a coworker of those two about how they raped and killed a Han woman. Eventually, Uighurs began killing innocent Hans uninvolved with the murder, while blaming the government for not protecting their rights, even after the man who originally started the rumor (and the people who killed the Uighurs) were apprehended. The majority of the over 100 people dead are reported to be Han Chiense uninvolved with the initial conflict. So basically, the Uighurs started killing innocent people over what was originally a private dispute.

That's framing it rather simply. Let's remember that just because an event may be the straw that breaks the camel's back, it doesn't mean that this wasn't going to happen anyway. All it took was a lynchpin to galvanise the entire situation. There are years of ethnic tension between Uighur and Han society. I won't say that the Uighurs are innocent here; killing people is socially abominable. But let's put social abomination aside for a moment.

The reality is that the PRC has been rather strong in its nationalist message since inception. The PRC didn't create this nationalism mind you, it's always existed in one form or another since the Han dynasty (and perhaps most potently during the fall of the Ming). They have however capitalised on it, from early events like the highly destructive Cultural Revolution, through to the most recent Olympic Games. But of course, we touched on this already, so...

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If we say anything, it's to this woman who we allow to live under our noses who incites violence in an area of the country that is normally peaceful. I doubt you think that all the Uighurs are unsatisfied with their treatment- there's plenty of Uighurs I've seen on television that say what all of us should be saying, why is there such an unnecessary outbreak of violence? This isn't even attacking some responsible party, this is attacking innocent people, and somehow it's the Han Chinese's fault that they have people pissed off that they have dead men, women and children on their hands?

How exactly involved is that woman in the violence itself? The PRC would have you believe one side, and she would have you believe another. The fact is though that up until recently, the ethnic minorities in the PRC have been rather quiet (or at least portrayed as such). Tibet's long-standing non-violent approach clearly hasn't worked well to leaven tensions with the PRC. It's no wonder that they finally did resort to violence. The same may be said of the Uighurs, especially considering that Turks have a strong military history and come from a rather proud background.

Quote
As far as Taiwan goes, their whole government system is screwed up. It really is a corrupt system, and one look at any political debate on a Taiwan news station shows that instantly. The politicians there act with no dignity whatsoever, except maybe President Ma Ying-jeou, who really fills most people watching him with nothing but anger because despite his aim to act like someone that is clean of corruption, he doesn't DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. You get CSB out of office, and this is really the best you can do?

I'd say politicians in just about any country act like asshats. That doesn't prove much. I'm disinclined to believe that Taiwan is any more corrupt than the PRC, and at least with Taiwan there's some transparency about the issues. It's rather difficult to take the PRC's word seriously when it has such a large influence on local media. Ma Ying-jou is PRC-friendly, but that's about as 'dignified' as he gets.

As to the whole "everyone else is as equally nationalist as the Han" thing... I disagree. There will always be a streak of nationalism in various peoples, but the Han are a reinforced example. The entire government and culture enforces a nationalist streak, akin to that of the Meiji-era Japanese. The PRC's not at war right now, so violent examples would not hold water, but it's rather safe to say that the government stands to be 'God' over its nation, with no tolerance for objections. They wouldn't use those words, but that doesn't change the reality.

Remember that whole Bush-era scare about media control and nationalism? Yeah. That. Pretty much the same thing, but thankfully less adopted and less effective.

I repeat however: I'm not saying the PRC is evil. I think that the Uighur riots are a bad thing, but perhaps necessary to draw attention to what happens in their corner of the world. It does demonstrate that there is a lot of racial tension in Xinjiang, and that ethnic minorities in China are underrepresented. Tibet is a party to that issue, as well as several more.

What I am asking is what should the PRC do about it? It can't simply shut things up like it's doing now, or like its done with Tibet in the past. Media control is an abhorrent policy, and government transparency is unheard of in the PRC. What needs to be done to right things?

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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2009, 04:44:22 AM »

That's framing it rather simply. Let's remember that just because an event may be the straw that breaks the camel's back, it doesn't mean that this wasn't going to happen anyway. All it took was a lynchpin to galvanise the entire situation. There are years of ethnic tension between Uighur and Han society. I won't say that the Uighurs are innocent here; killing people is socially abominable. But let's put social abomination aside for a moment.

The reality is that the PRC has been rather strong in its nationalist message since inception. The PRC didn't create this nationalism mind you, it's always existed in one form or another since the Han dynasty (and perhaps most potently during the fall of the Ming). They have however capitalised on it, from early events like the highly destructive Cultural Revolution, through to the most recent Olympic Games. But of course, we touched on this already, so...

Look, there have been years of tension between Americans and Muslims, that did not justify them rocketing planes into the Twin Towers and killing people completely unrelated to the tension. You can't just say "oh they were treated badly" and use it as an excuse for their actions. America's a really damn proud country, too, and can be dismissive of outsiders, but that STILL does not justify terrorism. No matter how you try to downplay the excuse, it still doesn't make it any more right. If the majority killed were Uighur, I'd be willing to bet you'd be ripping the Han a new asshole regardless of the reasoning behind it.

There is no justification in killing innocents, ever. You can't just 'set it aside' because you sympathize with the perpetrators.

I'd say politicians in just about any country act like asshats. That doesn't prove much. I'm disinclined to believe that Taiwan is any more corrupt than the PRC, and at least with Taiwan there's some transparency about the issues. It's rather difficult to take the PRC's word seriously when it has such a large influence on local media. Ma Ying-jou is PRC-friendly, but that's about as 'dignified' as he gets.
I wouldn't say MORE corrupt, possibly on the same level, just in different ways. However, you used to think that Taiwan was a shining beacon of light representing freedom in an insane country, and that's just not true. Even if you don't anymore - the West largely regards Taiwan as a martyr.

As to the whole "everyone else is as equally nationalist as the Han" thing... I disagree. There will always be a streak of nationalism in various peoples, but the Han are a reinforced example. The entire government and culture enforces a nationalist streak, akin to that of the Meiji-era Japanese. The PRC's not at war right now, so violent examples would not hold water, but it's rather safe to say that the government stands to be 'God' over its nation, with no tolerance for objections. They wouldn't use those words, but that doesn't change the reality.

I think that's actually been exaggerated. Yes, there are things about loving the country, doing your best for the country, etc. But even America has politicians who just go "Why do you hate America? Watch what you say, love it or leave it, suck on my truck nuts" when anyone dares question the U.S. government. I mean, hell, just a few decades back McCarthy was yelling about how anyone who questioned America was a Communist who needed to be shot. AT WORST, China is like the McCarthy era, just plain paranoid.

I repeat however: I'm not saying the PRC is evil. I think that the Uighur riots are a bad thing, but perhaps necessary to draw attention to what happens in their corner of the world. It does demonstrate that there is a lot of racial tension in Xinjiang, and that ethnic minorities in China are underrepresented. Tibet is a party to that issue, as well as several more.

What I am asking is what should the PRC do about it? It can't simply shut things up like it's doing now, or like its done with Tibet in the past. Media control is an abhorrent policy, and government transparency is unheard of in the PRC. What needs to be done to right things?

You keep mentioning that ethnic minorities aren't getting enough concessions - but everyone who's saying this are being vague as hell. What concessions do they want? During this violent riot, they were screaming how the government doesn't care about them. The government arrested the man who started the rumor (which is not normally a crime, by the way) and the Hans who killed the Uighur workers. What more do they want? Do they want the government to start butchering Hans? Or to pay them reparations for the dead workers? Nobody's saying anything concrete outside of "yeah they don't care." If you don't say what you want, how do you expect to be given it? More to the point, they are given concessions that many Han Chinese do not enjoy - for example, as Hathen mentioned earlier, the one-child policy does not apply to most of them.

I'd like for you to name some concrete examples of the lack of rights for the Uighurs, because even the U.S. is guilty of being absurdly racist and prejudiced towards ethnic minorities - just check out the Wen-Ho Lee. Oh sure, he got $1.6 million, but how much is that worth in the economy today? Oh, and his pension, which would have totaled MORE than $1.6 million, was revoked. And to top it all off, he wants desperately to start teaching, but no universities will ever hire him because of a permanent black mark on his record, and for what, because he was falsely accused of being a spy. Don't tell me how this is any order of magnitude less worse than what you are accusing China of, because this sort of thing happens A LOT in the U.S., so it's not an isolated incident; it's just that people don't give enough of a shit about the minorities to speak up about it.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 05:03:02 AM by Leyviur » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2009, 03:15:48 PM »

I'm not even going to try to keep up with you all, but I'll say that Turkish people have some horrible luck when it comes to racism.

It would make their lives a lot easier if the Turkish government simply agknowledged the fact that they commited genocide in Armenia in the 1960s. That's the ONLY thing keeping them from being admitted into the EU, which they're desperate to be in. Denial of genocide is kind of a sticky issue in Europe, since holocaust denial is considered an immense act of aggression (Iran). If Turkey is allowed into the EU with their current denial, it would send a double-standard to the rest of the world, especially Iran. It's a tough situation because Turkey needs to come to its own conclusion in its own time, an apology shouldn't be forced upon them, however, it's understandable that the EU (France and Germany especially), would not want to admit them without the appology, first.

It's a tough issue, but it'd solve a lot of problems if Turkey really took the time to take a good look at it's past and be able to come clean. I'm not suggesting that misdeeds against the Turkish people is at all acceptable, but socially and ecconomically, this would solve A LOT of problems.
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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2009, 06:19:33 PM »

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How exactly involved is that woman in the violence itself?

For me, this is one of the biggest deciding factors in this scenario. Rebiya Kadeer has a history of causing conflicts in the Xin Jiang area, being detained for it, and then being released to the United States (which asked for her custody), and China capitulated. Given her history, I'm not one to trust much of what she says, but putting that aside, China claims to have evidence that this riot was premeditated (I believe they said through the internet, or through phones, but don't quote me on that detail), and they have evidence that Kadeer is part of the ETIM- of course, my whole belief on this story hinges on whether the PRC decides to disclose any of this information, because the only way I imagine they would have this information is through a spy, and they'd have to be careful about what parts they release. Until they do though, I of course will not believe it, nor will I believe any claims that this woman was innocent.

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I'd say politicians in just about any country act like asshats.

Yeah, but I can't think of any other developed country that would accept any politicians making blatantly racist or homophobic statements and not getting an verbal ass-whupping for it.

The reason I say Ma Ying-Jeou is more dignified is because he doesn't do these things- he doesn't act like a child when he's supposed to be a role model for people(That's another reason he got a high female vote). I believe in a recent incident he even fired one of his own people because he made a statement to the effect of "You Taiwanese pigs". But like I said, as a president, he's certainly leaving a lot to be desired, but I believe that a President, and other people in important role-model positions, should carry themselves with a certain air.

The 20 years before Ma Ying-Jeou (CSB+Lee Teng-hui) has led to the corruption and inadequacy that exists in the Taiwan government today. As to whether or not it's any "less corrupt" than PRC...well, that's certainly not something can really be measured in any way.

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What I am asking is what should the PRC do about it? What needs to be done to right things?

To this I really can't give an answer, everyone needs more information before they can decide what exactly happened here- that the PRC is actually claiming that this is a planned riot would make all the difference in the world to me.

The whole problem is that people view the issue as simply as "make them independent", when in fact that actually encourages violence, especially in a place where the Han Chinese and the Uighur are practically the same in numbers. If when the African American community raised up those many decades ago, the smart plan certainly wouldn't have been to give them their own private sanctuary, that just creates a new nation with the default setting of wanting to go against everything the nation it spawned from.

But that brings me to another question, what exact injustices are the Uighur claiming here? When a minority cries racism here, it's not exactly easy to prove/disprove.

As a last question, do people really still consider the Uighur to be Turkish(I realize they're technically the same race, but their culture is quite different by now)? If this is the case, this is now more like a border dispute, and not any sort of minority rising.
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« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2009, 06:57:28 PM »

I haven't read any articles in depth on the riots because of American's huge liberal-bias on many news sites (I want some God damn unbiased news), but as for right now, all I have to say on the matter is that they're protesting in the wrong country. I'm surprised the Chinese government has yet to kill the minorities and any supporters of the minorities.
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2009, 01:18:59 AM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8143554.stm

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Ashton
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2009, 01:43:43 AM »

I'm unsure what you're implying. Is it that the government is evil for closing the mosque for one Friday?

Honestly, I doubt there's anything that can be done in this situation that's right or wrong. If the Uighur are gathered in a concentrated area, what's to stop the multitude of Han who want revenge from running in and starting another riot? They close down schools and churches and stuff in the U.S. for bomb threats - I don't see anything that's different here. I mean, it'd be different if they said, "No, you can't pray, it's illegal," but that's not the case here. They're telling people to stay in their homes to avoid danger until everything settles down. I really can't see any problem with that, at all.

Again, how would you handle this? I'd like to know. The only thing you've done so far is say how the Uighur have been oppressed by not being given their rights but not naming any examples, and not responded to anything asked of you. I'm not trying to call you out or anything here, I'm genuinely curious as to how you'd effectively handle the violence outbreak in the area, and of what rights are the Uighur denied?

So far, all the information we've seen makes this out to be a clash between ethnic groups that went overboard, which would not be huge news in any other country, but you're using this incident to say how the Hans are oppressing the Uighur with 'extreme nationality' - but not say how.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 01:57:16 AM by Leyviur » Logged

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