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Author Topic: SaGa series  (Read 5508 times)
MeshGearFox
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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2009, 11:23:41 AM »

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They walk you through pretty much everything and it's not quite as hard to totally fuck yourself over if you kind of bumble through the game

You can't do that so much in the original 3 for the gameboy (Unless you're using an all-monster party and eat really crappy meat, or do something similar in FFL3...). RS3 and SGF are kind of abusive with this though because of how enemies "level" with you. It's possible to have them develop faster than you. RS2 sounds kind of weird about this too. SO in SGF if you grind a bunch, enemies end up getting exponentially stronger while you might not be, since your Monster Rank is based on fighting in general and not WHAT you're fighting, whereas you only get good stat ups from fighting tuffer monst4rz.

With RS:MS your enemy rank seems to... increase fairly slowly. And with unlimited saga it's based on total number of turns you've taken in dungeons, and it's not really likely to get out of hand unless you're constantly intentionally timing out missions (and even then, it's one of the more middling-difficulty sagas, so intentionally raising enemy ranks means intentionally raising the difficulty means intentionally getting way better stat upgrades at the end of missions).

The idea of expansiveness in FFL2 was really cool since it was more about how you built your party. The story was fairly linear, but like, an all monster party is an entirely different thing from an all robot party or something.
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« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2009, 12:11:11 PM »

You can most definitely f*ck yourself over in the first Final Fantasy Legend. Wanna know how?

1) you can save anywhere
2) there are some rooms that will lock, and you have to fight the boss before you leave.

I had to restart the first FFL twice in my life because of that evil giant robot in the fourth world (with all the trains and stuff, before you take on Suzaku). Granted I was like 8 years old. But you get the point.

Ramza
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2009, 01:45:15 PM »

I've played SF, SF2 and Romancing Saga for PS2.

Tough call whether to start with Romancing Saga or Saga 2 because I like them both, but I think RS might be a little more user friendly at the start.

SF2 has the better soundtrack though.
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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2009, 02:05:44 PM »

SF2 has the better soundtrack though.

SF2 is one of my alltime favs. That said, Minstrel Song is beautiful as well. That battle theme with the female scat-singing vocalist is pure awesome.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2009, 03:53:43 PM »

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2) there are some rooms that will lock, and you have to fight the boss before you leave.

Oh, I thought that was just FFA. Which was even worse because keys and mattocks were in limitted quantity.
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« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2009, 04:33:16 PM »

You can most definitely f*ck yourself over in the first Final Fantasy Legend. Wanna know how?

1) you can save anywhere
2) there are some rooms that will lock, and you have to fight the boss before you leave.

I had to restart the first FFL twice in my life because of that evil giant robot in the fourth world (with all the trains and stuff, before you take on Suzaku). Granted I was like 8 years old. But you get the point.

Ramza

Did this a few times myself... I was probably the same age as you at the time as well.  The game could be VERY unforgiving... some of the glitches, however, leveled the playing field for me... hehehe, towards the end, I used the SAW on everything, including the final boss.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2009, 01:10:31 AM »

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2) there are some rooms that will lock, and you have to fight the boss before you leave.

Oh, I thought that was just FFA. Which was even worse because keys and mattocks were in limitted quantity.

Not really if you keep in mind that whenever there's a locked door or mattock blocked wall there will be enemies that drop keys and mattocks and mattocks stop being a problem all together once you acquire the morning star (ever wonder why enemies from Kett's place show up in every dungeon up to the Mana Palace).
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2009, 07:37:41 PM »

i think the problem was keys maybe i a m n o t r e a l l y s u r e a b o u t that though.

In any case FFL2 and SGF are my favorites, mostly 'cause the a t m o s p h e r e. In FFL2 like the first world it reminds me of standing outside and looking at the sky on a cloudless, blue-sky afternoon and seeing the moon full and white, and it's like, the towns are tiny and spares and NO ONE could live there -- and RPGs have tiny towns but not even the illusion of people living there is going on -- and it looks like a world where everyone is totally in motion, totally moving, like living on a mountainous, araucaria covered moon, but then you get to other worlds like the Japan World or the world with various gods that aren't gods but SCIENCE or another world with cities in a jungle and it is very beautiful and the music is very beautiful and you gotta imagine a part of humans and elves and robots walking around carrying absolutely insane amounts of weapons.

SGF has a very intriguing story that's hard to follow cause of a slightly derpy trans l a t i o n  a  n  d  t  h  i  n  g  s  b e i n g cut out of it but what you vcan still got is pretty cool. since there's a lot about this intergalactic history with T2610G and the Time Lord and the other Mystic lords and a very big impression of a very big world you can't comprehend. but you get GLIMMERS into it and th

One time I turned riki into some sort of vegetable frog and he killed everything 
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« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2009, 08:06:23 PM »

So I'm thinking based on everything that's been said and factoring into account access in getting the game and accessibility to play the game effectively, Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song for the PS2 is our buddy's best starting point for the series?  Personally, I think it is.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2009, 08:56:40 PM »

I'd still say SGF. RS: MS is probably the most complicated, even if it's also one of the better documented ones. And SGF has the more interesting storylines.

RS:MS has a super-fast battle system though. like, recent Atlus fast.

Oddly enough, RS3 really bugs me a lot, which I discovered when I was playing it earlier this year. It feels even less polished than SGF in a lot of way, and there's stuff like Muse's dream, where things don't working consistently, which is sort of maddening, and the quests are a little TOO breakable.

Anyway, useful (mandatory) stuff to know about unlimited saga that the manual omits (and you need to know this to not die):

1. The order you issue commands in determines what *row* your characters are place in. You have a front, middle, and back row (or just a front and back, if you use less than five characters). Row determines likelyhood of being attacked. Actual order of attack execution you pick with the D-pad ones the reels start spinning.

Why does this matter? You give your high LP, well-armored guys commands first, they get attacked more, give your frailer guys commands last, they get attacked less, and your characters, unlike my wife, do not end up with large chunks of wood jutting from their skulls, lying at the bottom of the staircase in a puddle of their own blood after they tripped following one of my many, many meth-fueled rages.

2. There's a timing element, here. Every attack-type per weapon (Like uh... Javeline and Grasshopper for Spears. The ones you select on the menu. Not the ones on the reel) varies in accuracy, speed, and damage. In general, attacks at the top of the list are faster, weaker, and more accurate, and ones at the end are strong, but slower and less accurate (Not quite though, but I don't really remember off hand how exactly it works. It's on gamefaqs. I could post it if anyone's interested). And magic is the slowest of all.

Why does this matter? Attacks of the same speed-group are more likely to combo with eachother. Also, enemies have a set number of actions they get per turn (Total number of enemies + 2), and so if you frontload your attacks with slow ones or magic, the enemies will launch all THEIR actions, and then you can pull of massive combos with your remaining dudes.

3. Weapons either do primarily HP damage (Swords, Axes, Hammers, Spears), LP damage (Spears, daggers, shooty type weapons), or, uh... you also have staffs, and they inflict status affects, but suck at damage.

Why does this matter? You do LP damage to kill enemies, and the less HP anything has, the more likely it will take LP damage. So, if you frontload a bunch of LP-damagic weapon attacks on enemies with full HP, nothing much'll happen. But if you frontload a bunch of HP-damaging attacks, you where the down, send in the LP-damaging attacks, and EVERYTHING GETS DEAD.

Bringing it all together:

A very viable strategy is this: If you're up against two enemies you want to kill, do two un-combo'd slow, HP-damaging attacks (or magic) first. This will wear the enemy HP down and cause them to use most of their attacks. Then have your last three actions be LP damaging attacks, combo them all together for the combo bonus (and you probably won't get interupted, since your slow guys went first), and shit gets dead bitches.

Also, rotating your rows and who's acting is really important to like keeping everyone's LP from getting too low.

So basically your focus in battle should be conserving LP (and HP sort of) by rotating party members, wearing down the enemy by doing HP damage, killing the enemy by doing LP damage, and making ways to get better combos to enhance the former.

Other useful tips:

Trap/map-action reels seem really hard to hit at first, but what you want to do is look for a cluster of multiple green (success) panels in a row. When you see it come up, count how long it takes to get around back to it. Let it run a couple of times to make sure you get the timing down. DON'T go by visuals. You still can get slippage (reel moves on it's own. It's a dumb feature and I hate it but whatever, sometimes it makes you hit a success panels) but generally if you go off timing you'll hit stuff like FAR FAR FAR more frequently than if you're just looking at it.
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Ithunn
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« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2009, 12:47:10 PM »

Wut.  SaGa games are -all about- being open and expansive.  That's kind of the point.  The games are low on story because you're supposed to write your own.  Hence the series' catchline "God created man, but man creates his own SaGa."

What I meant was with RSMS, you have the capability of taking on too many side missions, the NPCs not appearing in place once you take on those missions, with too much useless running around. RSMS is best done by limiting yourself, I believe. At least the missions and game go by faster.
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« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2009, 04:59:43 PM »

SaGa Frontier is good. Really good. Everyone hated it, because it followed on the heels of mainstream-happy Final Fantasy 7, and people were expecting more easy battles and FMV Tifa closeups. But it's really a brilliant combination of Western PC-style open world and JRPG character focused storyline.

The skill system is neat: It's like Elder Scrolls or Final Fantasy 2j, where the more you do something, the better you get at it (swing a sword enough and you get new sword techniques.)

You get to pick one of seven characters, play through their story (usually 5-10 hours) bumping into or actually recruiting the player characters you chose not to play. Then, when you finish their story, you go on to play another, until you have all of them beaten for a final bit at the end.

It's kind of randomly hard and just plain weird, but if you give it a try, you'll probably love it. I played the robot first, because his story is fairly straightforward.
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« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2009, 09:00:41 PM »

The skill system is neat: It's like Elder Scrolls or Final Fantasy 2j, where the more you do something, the better you get at it (swing a sword enough and you get new sword techniques.)

It was painfully bad in FF2. But you do realize that virtually every SaGa uses this system, right?
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2009, 09:14:31 PM »

I never had a problem with it in FF2, except when it came to levelling up magic. As far as attack spells go, just giving one to each character and having everyone double as a mage and a fighter works fine. For attack spells. levelling up stuff like esuna and uh... some of the less-commonly used spells is a pain, though. Essentially stuff like barrier is rendered a tad bit useless since its success rate is hard to get decent, and esuna doesn't cure anything common till the higher levels. So basically I quit playing FF2 because "useless status attacks" is one of my things that'll make me quit playing a game.

Honestly, ff2 is one of the easier FFs I've played, and I never grinded in it or did that attacking yourself trick. You kind of hit a point where nothing actually hurts you and you kill everything in one hit, and it happens pretty early on. You stop actually gaining HP at this point but it doesn't really matter because you're sort of invincible anyway.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 09:20:19 PM by MeshGearFox » Logged

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Aeolus
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« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2009, 12:49:39 AM »

I never had a problem with it in FF2, except when it came to levelling up magic. As far as attack spells go, just giving one to each character and having everyone double as a mage and a fighter works fine. For attack spells. levelling up stuff like esuna and uh... some of the less-commonly used spells is a pain, though. Essentially stuff like barrier is rendered a tad bit useless since its success rate is hard to get decent, and esuna doesn't cure anything common till the higher levels. So basically I quit playing FF2 because "useless status attacks" is one of my things that'll make me quit playing a game.

Honestly, ff2 is one of the easier FFs I've played, and I never grinded in it or did that attacking yourself trick. You kind of hit a point where nothing actually hurts you and you kill everything in one hit, and it happens pretty early on. You stop actually gaining HP at this point but it doesn't really matter because you're sort of invincible anyway.

That's not entirely true though since once you change to a more dangerous region the enemies become a threat until you close the gap in stats since your stats will not grow much further than a level comparable with the enemies in your area. This is thanks to the fact that those enemies in the old region can't do anything to you anymore making it pointless to fight them since you're tearing through the enemy rather than using and developing more stats (unless you take the opportunity to grind in their presence which is kinda like cheating).

Also FF2's enemy difficulty curve is set very low for the first third of the game. It's not until you reach Kas'on Castle (or whatever its called) that you'll see any real change in enemy difficulty level.
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