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Author Topic: Which series has gone the longest without a dud?  (Read 21290 times)
Lard
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« on: September 06, 2009, 12:33:27 AM »

Got thinking about this because of a thread in another forum.

Would you say the first couple of Final Fantasy are duds and got better?

Would you count franchises that only have two games, such as Chrono or Parasite Eve?

What about the Megaten games? Are SMT proper and Persona different series or do they all fall under one banner?

I'm tempted to say Final Fantasy, because there wasn't really a dud until number 8.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2009, 01:04:01 AM »

I think the only two JRPG series (not counting two or three game long serieses) I've liked every game in were uh, Dragon Quest and SaGa.

Theoretically I've liked every SMT game I've played (though not equally. While I admit to actually liking Revelations: TDS quite a bit, Demikids and Raidou 1 are NOT HIGH ON MY LIST AT ALL but I don't really DISLIKE them), I must also acknowledge that Rondo exists. Even then there were still tons of SMT-related games by that point. So, for JRPGs, I'll say SMT.

I don't think there are wany WRPG series I liked entirely. I mean even my favorite one, Ultima... Well, you have no reason to play 1 and 2, honestly, and especially 2 is just horrible.

I think I'll say Might and Magic, because that didn't really get stupid until 8 (even if 7 was ugly as hell and sort of a retread of 6. Still fun).

Honestly I think most series started sort of mediocre and then BECAME good.
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Lard
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2009, 01:13:25 AM »

Actually I hadn't even considered the Goldbox D&D games, though I don't think you could count them as all in the same series, even though you can transfer characters in some.
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2009, 01:37:42 AM »

Third one was widely considered a disappointment for some reason.
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 01:57:51 AM »

Honestly I think most series started sort of mediocre and then BECAME good.

Definitely true of longer running RPGs (or the earlier ones are just a pain to get into), but I think when you go to other genres, or go to series that started in the 90s or whatever you can find a lot of games that started off good, or even a first installment that outshined the rest of the series. Mega Man X could be an example, if nothing else I enjoyed 1 far more than any other entry I've seriously played, and that's 1-4, and going by the response 6 and 7 have that leaves only 5 and 8 for me to possibly like more.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 03:28:21 AM »

Oh wow. Yet another topic with no answer that isn't subjective as hell.

Here's a funny story. The BoF series. Remember it? It was pretty popular back in the day. There's the first game which people liked when it first came out even though games like SoM, FFIV, and such were already out by then and games like IoG, FFVI, and so on were literally right around the corner. Then there was BoFII which is still fondly remembered for some inexplicable reason despite having a translation that wouldn't be topped in awfulness until 32-bit gems like WAII and FFT reared their poorly localized heads (among other things wrong with BoFII). And then there was BoFIII which is currently hailed as the best of the series, but what I'm playing through right now is a game with plodding plot points with arcane mini-games (like the Desert of Death) peppering the game throughout. There's BoFIV, which I have not played yet and will be spoken of no more in this post. And then there's DQ which was a game so different that it all but alienated the entire series fanbase up to that point yet creating an entirely new fanbase for that one game.

Then of course I know of other stories too like the PS series, all four titles bearing innovative ideas at the time, but only one of which is still playable by today's standards. Or perhaps the Zelda series where the NES games while masterpieces of their time have admittedly lost quite a bit of their charm compared to their present day contemporaries. Even the FF series is a tale of a series fraught with games once considered great by the day's standard yet to the ravages of time some like FFIV and FFVII succumbed.

The lesson of these stories is that no series is bereft of games with limits such as time set upon their appeal. Even if a game is a herald of tidings to come it is not always immune to old age.
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2009, 03:28:52 AM »

Eh... don't know if there is one. Honestly, I've never hated ANY Final Fantasy game, all of them have their merits, even FFV, it has a really fun skill system. Having never played II, and only part of I and III, I can't really comment about the early days, but 4-12 (sans 11), were all worth playing. That's really quite impressive, honestly.

Though, if we're going outside the RPG realm, I gotta say, Nintendo's big three: Mario, Metroid, and Zelda, have never had real stinkers. Phantom Hourglass and Metroid Fusion are probably the closest things to duds those series have coughed up. But even Fusion has one of the best stories in the series, and at least I have to give a tip of the hat to the level of depth that Phantom Hourglass had.
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 04:06:32 AM »

I wouldn't count franchises with two or three games.

I don't think I would count MegaTen proper either because that's what, 4 games or whatever? But if you want to count EVERYTHING MegaTen, I guess Persona Revelations counts as a dud, but it also sounds like a victim of awful localization.

In Fire Emblem, FE Gaiden (second FE ever, for Famicom) is considered a dud from my observations of the fandom.

Opinions differ too much on Final Fantasy. I put down VIII partway through the second disc, people loved it. I loved X (and X-2 for that matter), others didn't. I got bored five minutes into IX. But is a dud one that just didn't sell well as the rest of the series, or was just more badly received? Or the game that you personally hated?

Outside the RPG realm: I agree with Metroid. Devil May Cry's plagued with the second game.
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2009, 05:13:35 AM »

Persona 1's localization was far more coherent than FFT's or BoF2's. Okay, so it was whitewashed (except they made mark black and fuck y'all black mark is awesome). Whatever. There were some punctuational* issues but when there WERE typos they were the sort of typos that people that speak english make and not like something out of Tlon or the sort of dumbitude that 78641 parodies. Gameplay wise the dungeon designs are lacking and the battles are sort of slow, but they're more interesting than "mash attack and win" so they're slower but relatively more involving than most games of the era.

So what about Quintet? Does Actraiser count? Was Granstream Saga any good? HG101 says it's the best in the series, but common logic + youtube says HG101 is full of shit (AGAIN)**. If we're just looking at the trilogy strictly, too short (even though I thought it was perfect~~~)



* How the hell is this a word :(
** Also related to Persona, or rather IS, HG101 apparently plays a big role in continuing stupid rumors about nazi imagery being why IS never got a US release. I can think of several reasons why this is false. One of them is Wolfenstein 3D. Another is a movie that came out last week.
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2009, 05:27:16 AM »

** Also related to Persona, or rather IS, HG101 apparently plays a big role in continuing stupid rumors about nazi imagery being why IS never got a US release. I can think of several reasons why this is false. One of them is Wolfenstein 3D. Another is a movie that came out last week.

I have a feeling that when importing foreign works the companies responsible might be extra sensitive despite natively developed works (your examples) already treading on the subject matter; note that Maken X had the swastikas removed. The timing was pretty bad too though, with armed students going after a school official RIGHT AFTER COLUMBINE, but I recall hearing Sony told them they could only release one or the other, and they chose EP. That seems most likely given that Medal of Honor had no problems and the bonus anime trailer thing had Eikichi shooting up demons anyway, and
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2009, 07:28:48 AM »

When it comes to Megami Tensei (and I'm talking the whole shebang here: Devil Summoner, SMT, Persona, Majin Tensei, Last Bible, Devil Children, all of it, even Maken X if it counts) what impresses me about it is that despite its prolific nature, there haven't been many clunkers.  Rhonde is widely reviled a truly bad game, and I would (and have) rated Demikids and Revelations: The Demon Slayer (Last Bible 1) as C-grade games.  Even the first Raidou Kuzunoha game, despite having some issues still had enough merits to be a B-grade game.  I mean, just by virtue of numbers you'd expect both a lot of awesome and a lot of clunkers, kinda like how the coach that won the most games probably also lost the most games by virtue of having coached so many games.  

Perhaps the Infinity series (Infinity/Never7, Ever17, Remember11, 12Riven) is one that hasn't had a stinker yet.  Granted it's only 4 games so far, but it's been around since the Playstation era.

Regarding Maken X, I still kinda think the localization team's thinking "ha, the joke's on you" because they swapped out Swastikas for the Chinese military, yet the Chinese military's probably killed more people than the Nazis (including a lot of their own people) and probably committed a greater number of atrocities.  Rape of Nanking is the "holocaust" that you hardly hear about in history class.  


And though I'm likely off base, I'm not 100% sure if the Nazi stuff in IS was what killed it.  After all, many video games have Nazi references, like Wolfenstein 3D.  I think it was the Columbine timing that set things off since the first boss in IS is your dickhead high school principal and one of the characters carries a machine gun concealed in a guitar case.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 07:34:37 AM by Dincrest » Logged

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ShadowLaguna
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2009, 08:19:46 AM »

I can't really say Final Fantasy, mainly because I wasn't a fan of FFII (the actual II, FFIV is brilliant) and I haven't played FFXI. A lot of the FF spinoffs are rather poor in quality, but I guess we're only talking main series here.

I could say Tales, seeing as I have enjoyed every Tales game that I have played (Phantasia, Eternia, Symphonia, Vesperia, Hearts), but then again, I have yet to play some of the other ones. I heard Tales of Legendia was indeed a dud.

Breath of Fire would definitely be another choice. I enjoyed all five of them. While Dragon Quarter would be my least favourite in the series, I still really enjoyed it, despite it's changes.

That is all I can think of right now.
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2009, 08:47:13 AM »

Dincrest: the Rape of Nanking was done by Japanese soldiers, not Chinese.  Between Unit 731, the Rape of Nanking, and comfort women alone, the Japanese certainly had their fair share of atrocities.  Their continued whitewashing of WW II history is also cute.  

Anyway, topic on hand - the Soul Blazer series is all awesome stuff.   Anyway, series are bound to end up with stinkers at some point because elements will be introduced to keep it from becoming stale.  Not everyone will like changes to the series' formula.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 11:36:28 AM by Ryos » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2009, 09:44:49 AM »

Anyway, topic on hand - the Soul Blazer series is all awesome stuff.

Yet very unfortunately, discontinued at the moment.
I'll agree with this, only problem was that it's reign stopped at the SNES with a mere three titles.

I think this is a fairly personal question, I don't think you can really list something here without having someone's disapproval.

Personally:
Breath of Fire (story wise, they've been grand, and they've always had that touch of magic dust...for lack of better reasoning)
Tales of (haven' played all though, but the games' general "formula" has never *not* been fun)
Final Fantasy (not the spinoffs, I can't see a problem with the series, I've played to their ends)
Wild Arms (Wild West + RPG = Fuck Yeah baby)
Star Ocean (The Sci-Fi element and pretty grand scale customization made love to me...oh fuck, SO4...nvm this then)
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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2009, 10:03:22 AM »

For all I know, the Persona series have increased its quality after each upcoming sequel.

Speaking of DQIX, weren't the Japanese disappointed with it? (not sure though) I remember checking the Amazon reviews and it didn't get that high.
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