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Subject: Persona 3: FES
Prize: $20 eShop, PSN or Steam code
Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: Which series has gone the longest without a dud?  (Read 21337 times)
Eusis
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« Reply #135 on: September 18, 2009, 05:06:42 PM »

It may be that she's thinking of how well animated and expressive it is, certainly it's not as big of a jump there as V was over IV which pretty much only had people bowing their heads and a few kissing sprites, and it'd go along with the thought process she's exhibiting thus far. Anything else is nuts.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #136 on: September 18, 2009, 06:10:55 PM »

She's trying to defend her opinion even though it's already been shot through a million times and slipping further into incoherence. I know because I used to do the exact same thing before I realized that if you just START OUT completely incoherent your argument is too bizarre to be argued anyway.

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"dinosaurs are a test of faith by God"

Dunno about you but I was in DC this spring and all the dinosaur skeletons kept trying to sell me hookers (at least half of which were triple-breasted gay pandas).

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"Obama is killing your grandmother"

You know I can't say I'd promote outright killing her because I'm just too nice but shipping that psycho off to some colony on the moon...
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 06:12:35 PM by MeshGearFox » Logged

o/` I do not feel joy o/`
o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

Hidoshi
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« Reply #137 on: September 18, 2009, 07:08:51 PM »

I hereby summarise everything Alisha has said in this thread:

"Wah wah wah, I don't like a popular series so I'm going to be down on it so I can look cool."
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Lard
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« Reply #138 on: September 18, 2009, 08:14:57 PM »

Saying FF6 had poor graphics because they weren't animated is like calling the artists for PS1 games lazy because they used pre-rendered backgrounds instead of full 3-D polygonal backgrounds.

They did the best they could with the tools at the time.

Just because you don't like them doesn't make them crap.

That stick figure video reminds me of some of the animations in Lode Runner on the C64.

Does that mean the C64 had better graphics than the SNES? I think not.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 08:17:04 PM by Lard » Logged

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Hidoshi
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« Reply #139 on: September 18, 2009, 08:31:36 PM »

I still think pre-rendered backgrounds are exceptionally beautiful things when done right. Baten Kaitos Origins had some incredibly beautiful scenes. While I appreciate that polygonal backgrounds are more useful for certain cinematic purposes, I feel that pre-rendered scenes can fit a game just fine, and need not be treated as antiquated devices.
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Lard
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« Reply #140 on: September 18, 2009, 08:32:50 PM »

I wasn't trying to diss pre-rendered backgrounds, just make a comparison.
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Eusis
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« Reply #141 on: September 18, 2009, 08:36:44 PM »

I still think pre-rendered backgrounds are exceptionally beautiful things when done right.

In both cases they allow you to add more detail to the visuals than if you had everything animated/fully 3D. In the case of the former it's pretty obvious, but in the case of the latter that's freeing up polygons for use on characters and whatnot. It has gradually become less significant, but it might be surprisingly effective if more tried on modern hardware, similar to using 2D on the PS2 (Odin Sphere).
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Blace
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« Reply #142 on: September 18, 2009, 08:39:15 PM »

Resident Evil 1 for the GC had amazing pre-rendered backgrounds.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #143 on: September 19, 2009, 06:25:33 AM »

Prerendered backgrounds, by nature of being a static image, would really, really cut down on GPU costs.

And by nature of being static they're not appropriate for anything first person.

What ever happened to voxels?
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o/` I do not dream o/`
o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

kyuusei
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« Reply #144 on: September 19, 2009, 12:35:41 PM »


i have played PS3 and i enjoyed it. the thing is many consider FF6 the crown jewel of the snes. i however think it is inferior to shining force 2(crown jewel to me of the genesis) visually.maybe even musically. i think they came out around the same time,and to me its seems the marginally improved on FFV graphically and called it a new game.

Have you PLAYED V and VI? Because other than the 'marginally' improved graphics as you call them, they're quite different...
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Alisha
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« Reply #145 on: September 19, 2009, 02:41:31 PM »

this is the last i'm gonna say on this!
my whole gripe with FF1-6 is the whole attacking at air and magically damaging opponents. to me animation quality is a component of graphics quality. i'm sure it would of been so hard to have the characters jump next to their targets or something before attacking. i remember when you attack with a monk in FFV it looks like you are firing some kind of gun. i also noticed in ff9 it seemed like almost every enemy in the game cast magic to attack. one can assume this was a time saving measure so they wouldnt have to animate physical attacks for all the enemies even though i think some of those same enemies might of had physical attacks in ff8.


i have played PS3 and i enjoyed it. the thing is many consider FF6 the crown jewel of the snes. i however think it is inferior to shining force 2(crown jewel to me of the genesis) visually.maybe even musically. i think they came out around the same time,and to me its seems the marginally improved on FFV graphically and called it a new game.

Have you PLAYED V and VI? Because other than the 'marginally' improved graphics as you call them, they're quite different...
i played both on gba but finished neither.

I hereby summarise everything Alisha has said in this thread:

"Wah wah wah, I don't like a popular series so I'm going to be down on it so I can look cool."
i dont think thats the case. at least not on a conscious level. and for the record i have enjoyed ff8-12,and all the tactics games.

Saying FF6 had poor graphics because they weren't animated is like calling the artists for PS1 games lazy because they used pre-rendered backgrounds instead of full 3-D polygonal backgrounds.

They did the best they could with the tools at the time.

Just because you don't like them doesn't make them crap.

That stick figure video reminds me of some of the animations in Lode Runner on the C64.

Does that mean the C64 had better graphics than the SNES? I think not.
its not just that its not well animated. but its not well animated compared to its peers.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2009, 02:43:30 PM by Alisha » Logged


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kyuusei
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« Reply #146 on: September 19, 2009, 03:09:35 PM »

Good animation is a component of good graphics - but it's not the ONLY component. LOL, that was my point several posts ago. Yes. it would have been nice to see the sprites in FFVI fully animated, but it was already a huge game already (in its time), and there IS a finite amount of both a) cartridge space and b) staff/time/etc. resources that Squareoft had back then. Space and resources that obviously went to things other than your high expectations of animation. Have you ever animated sprites yourself? I have not, so who are we to say how hard it would have been to do full animation for ALL the character and monster sprites in FFVI especially with as detailed as some of them are? And as someone pointed out, characters attacking without going far from their position was (mostly) standard in RPGs back then.

i played both on gba but finished neither.
I get the feeling you didn't get very far in one, the other or both.
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Eusis
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« Reply #147 on: September 19, 2009, 03:19:36 PM »

i played both on gba but finished neither.

This is why I brought up the point that the GBA version enhanced the battle backgrounds for FFV, take a look for yourself. Final Fantasy IV had more of a graphical update due to the Wonderswan port, whiel FFVI received no such updates and simply cropped the battle backgrounds.
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Alisha
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« Reply #148 on: September 19, 2009, 03:40:09 PM »

the last thing i remember from FFV was your boat falling in some whirlpool and some underground ruins and i think some airship and some giant floating fortess or something. i stopped playing ff6 when kefka makes the world go boom and you have to round up your party members.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #149 on: September 19, 2009, 04:47:34 PM »

My earlier point is that there was animation. Just not where you were looking.

The other point I was trying to make is that few RPGs prior to FFVI showed both sides of the fight compared most RPGs back in the day that took the Wizardry approach of a first person view only. No party members to look at. Hence the example of PS3 which has no in-battle character sprites and ugly enemy design yet just the slightest amount of animation for each monster. To say that PS3 is a better looking game than FFVI is hilarious.

Also you mentioned Shining Force ][ as superior looking game than FFVI. I have not played SF][. However I have played Beyond the Beyond which is a later game made by the same development team on a more technologically advanced console. It looked to be about on par with early SuperNES games like Lufia 1 and DQ V (original version) with the occasional prerendered background (which looked significantly better than the rest of the game despite their fairly generic look). I doubt that SF][ looked any better (and then of course there's the fact that its a SRPG and not a regular RPG since judging FFVI purely by the lack of movement compared to an SRPG and you might as well go back to FE1 on the Famicom which predated the hell out of SF][ and is also a disingenuous comparison) which makes the comparison pretty much fail. A contemporary game to FFVI that I would definitely agree with you on its superior visual design would be Chrono Trigger.

And as I've said before the GBA version of FFVI sucks and blows balls and ass (respectfully).
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