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Author Topic: Square Enix  (Read 17755 times)
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« on: September 21, 2009, 10:09:25 AM »

We all know Square Enix was formed from Squaresoft and Enix' merging. Squaresoft made wonderful RPGs (from Final Fantasy to Xenogears to Chrono Trigger/Cross to etc.) and Enix had its awesome share (Dragon Quest to Star Ocean to Valkyrie Profile). Squaresoft had been one of the most loved and respected RPG developers, same goes with Enix.

Ever since the merge, we've been hearing so much hate towards SE and especially Wada. People keep on saying "Wada sucks", "FF is dead", "they don't make good games no more", etc. Little do we hear positive things about SE nowadays. Pretty sad because they were once the most loved developers and have become the most hated developers.

What do you think about SE and the games that they have made after the merge? What kind of future does Square Enix hold? Do you think if Wada gets booted out, SE would actually improve? :P
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 10:14:57 AM by Hoshino_Kid » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2009, 10:21:58 AM »

Square's games are getting worse generally because the company has become so focused on profits over quality.  Wada has stated multiple times in public forums that he's willing to gouge the consumer for every cent they'll cough up, and that he believes his companies' place is in remaking games and forcing people to pay for them over and over again.  And the terrible thing is that it works.  do I think getting rid of Wada would "fix" things?  Not at all, since really he's just a figurehead speaking for the entire body of S-E shareholders who want the same thing.

That said, I don't generally believe that the quality changed at all because of the merge.  Square and Enix both had a lot of terrible games before the merge, and they've had a lot of great games after it.  I think a lot of the complaining stems from people not liking the same things as when they were younger, and blaming the company rather then just accepting their changing tastes.
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2009, 10:54:11 AM »

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Wada has stated multiple times in public forums that he's willing to gouge the consumer for every cent they'll cough up, and that he believes his companies' place is in remaking games and forcing people to pay for them over and over again.

If gamers are completely willing to keep buying them, can you really blame him?
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2009, 12:08:51 PM »

It does seem like they're trying more new and different things this gen (Nier, Lost Odyssey, Edge of Eternity) than they did last gen.

Last gen it was basically FF10/12, Kingdom Hearts and Tales games - with SO3 thrown in as an extra.

I miss the Square of the PS1 era though.
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2009, 12:12:35 PM »

It does seem like they're trying more new and different things this gen (Nier, Lost Odyssey, Edge of Eternity) than they did last gen.

Lost Odyssey is by Mistwalker and End of Eternity is by tri-Ace/Sega.

The only different games that they've made is Nier and The Last Remnant on consoles. I'm not too sure about Infinite Undiscovery (since it's a tri-Ace and Microsoft collaboration).
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2009, 12:58:21 PM »

Hating on Square has been the hip thing to do since FF7.  My favorite Square Enix release of the past few years has easily been The World Ends With You.  
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 01:04:23 PM by Dincrest » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2009, 01:44:15 PM »

I think a lot of the complaining stems from people not liking the same things as when they were younger, and blaming the company rather then just accepting their changing tastes.

It can be this in part, but I think the aim of SE's games has been shifting too, note how FF1 was basically a D&D ripoff whereas the latest games are going for the shonen crowd. Personally, I mostly hate the fact that it seems they're more interested in whoring out established titles and series than trying new things like they did in the 16-bit and 32-bit generations, even if said new things don't always pan out.

Anyways, I think putting it down as love/hate isn't right either. I generally like SE games, certainly they're far from being one of the worst publishers out there (Activision), though the price gouging on DS games for what you get has gotten very tired, and unfortunately I think they're taking it as "DS games = failure" in America since there's a bunch they could be localizing or announcing for localization, but all we have coming out this fall is Kingdom Hearts.
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2009, 01:59:15 PM »

You guys really need to stop viewing this industry from such an innocent perspective. The company exists to make money, not to please a bunch of old school hardcore gamers. We need to get over it. In this day and age you can't take any risks. At all. Either the proffit is guaranteed or the project is thrown out of the window. I'm in the middle of a struggle to keep a company alive and all that matters is generating income, no matter what you have to do or who you have to take down. It's a struggle for survival and even huge companies like SE know how easy it is to fall into that kind of situation.
The franchises from the good old days that still guarantee sales get sequels, the rest is scraped. And unless you bring an idea that is sure to be a winner (like a game full of disney and FF characters) you're better off keeping it to yourself.
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2009, 02:06:48 PM »

I suspect that's either cynical or naive in a way too though. A company needs to take risks every so often, but more importantly not every game needs a large enough budget to be a financial liability upon failing. It's naive to think companies can leisurely make risky big budget games all the time, but what about smaller ones, like downloadable ones? Or simply something that doesn't inherently push a system to the max, such as the MegaTen titles? I'll note that most other companies had completely new titles last generation, while SE only had... I think three published here, and I'm not sure Kingdom Hearts quite counts due to being a crossover between Final Fantasy and Disney. That's the problem here, not so much that they're conservative as they had gone to an extreme here.

Edit: Actually since I find it relevant, I recall reading something said along the lines that book publishers will publish the crappy yet highly popular novels to make a profit, and use some of that for the less popular but high quality novels. It's two different industries here admittedly, and certainly making a game would cost far more than a book, but it still seems like a sound principle to follow.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 02:13:09 PM by Eusis » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2009, 02:50:32 PM »

You guys really need to stop viewing this industry from such an innocent perspective. The company exists to make money, not to please a bunch of old school hardcore gamers. We need to get over it. In this day and age you can't take any risks. At all. Either the proffit is guaranteed or the project is thrown out of the window. I'm in the middle of a struggle to keep a company alive and all that matters is generating income, no matter what you have to do or who you have to take down. It's a struggle for survival and even huge companies like SE know how easy it is to fall into that kind of situation.
The franchises from the good old days that still guarantee sales get sequels, the rest is scraped. And unless you bring an idea that is sure to be a winner (like a game full of disney and FF characters) you're better off keeping it to yourself.

I don't really think anyone here feels different.  But the fact is it still sucks, and we can still complain about it all we want.

It's also one thing to do things like this and still provide quality new entertainment.  It's another to stand up and blatantly tell your customers "We're just going to remake the same games over and over and you're going to like it."

Quote
though the price gouging on DS games for what you get has gotten very tired, and unfortunately I think they're taking it as "DS games = failure" in America since there's a bunch they could be localizing or announcing for localization, but all we have coming out this fall is Kingdom Hearts.

Yeah, their whole DS price structure felt like a system designed to fail.  They don't really provide games of any better qualtiy, but charge more for their games then anyone else.  You have to be really ballsy to charge more for a game then Nintendo does, and they're feeling the bite back from consumers.  And then to turn around and basically blame us for it is just insulting.

With that said...I really want SaGa 2.
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2009, 03:09:57 PM »

I honestly suspect we're overdue for a price hike on DS games, much as I hate to say it. Not only was there inflation but games are WAY more ambitious than they were 20 years ago on the Game Boy, yet still cost the same (at the least I recall buying Kirby 2 for $30). I still hold it against SE though because they felt the need to BOTH charge $40 on Valkyrie Profile: CotP and remove nearly all voice acting. What the fuck is that premium going for if you're cutting crap like that out? I'll accept DQIV as a one off screw up since the sequel restored it and I've been told the party chat sucked in IV anyway, but that was ridiculous.
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2009, 03:18:20 PM »

I think a lot of the complaining stems from people not liking the same things as when they were younger, and blaming the company rather then just accepting their changing tastes.
I generally like SE games, certainly they're far from being one of the worst publishers out there (Activision),
I was going to say something along those lines. The prize of most hated developer/publisher goes to EA with ActiBlizzard challenging them for the top spot. Maybe that is a sign that SE is headed in the right direction. The most hated guys seem to be at the very top. ;)

Trying new things is dangerous especially on the HD consoles...at this point in the generation. Doing new stuff on handhelds or iPhone is by far the safest bet. Even if the game ends up failing chances are they only spent a fraction to make the game in comparison to making an HD game.

I would say that it's a shame that they didn't get anything experimental out on the HD systems that uses the White Engine/Crystal tools. It would have been a learning experience for them, helped in the maturing of Crystal Tools, and there is a chance that they would have ended up with an new IP under their own engine.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 03:40:18 PM by Lord Dorkus » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2009, 03:24:42 PM »

The prize of must hated developer/publisher goes to EA with ActiBlizzard challenging them for the top spot.

Who are you kidding, EA's been getting better by putting out games I actually care about and improving employee treatment, while Activision's CEO proudly boasts of taking "all the fun out of making video games". It's no longer a contest which is worse here.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 03:29:25 PM by Eusis » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2009, 03:44:26 PM »

EA has been very good recently. Mirror's Edge and Dead Space were both risks they took and both were good (although Dead Space is the better of the two). I have nothing against EA right now. I hate Activision though. They can take Guitar Hero and shove it.
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2009, 03:50:07 PM »

It does seem like they're trying more new and different things this gen (Nier, Lost Odyssey, Edge of Eternity) than they did last gen.

Last gen it was basically FF10/12, Kingdom Hearts and Tales games - with SO3 thrown in as an extra.

I miss the Square of the PS1 era though.

Basically this. Regarding the FF hate, FFXII was a good game and XI is a good MMORPG, if there was anything to hate from FF lately was FFX-2.

But yes, i miss the days o having games like Musashi (the first one) Threads of Fate, Parasite Eve among others. Now SE, just like most companies out there, are just milking clueless people with recycled games. Good for them i guess, bad for anyone who actually wants new gaming experiences. Sad because The World Ends With You is a solid game, and so far the exception to all the FF7 milking/Kingdom Hearts-fest.
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