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Author Topic: Aldorlea's Millennium: A New Hope  (Read 10241 times)
MeshGearFox
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« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2009, 08:50:45 PM »

If you're selling your game, as far as I'm concerned you're a professional and should exhibit professionalism, and you really need to check this stuff out before it becomes an issue. Ripping assets and using them in a commercial game is grounds for actual legal action. And this was from a Nintendo game, so... potentially *costly* legal action.
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WildArms
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« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2009, 10:02:41 PM »

Well at least you admitted you did the mistake and ereased them right away :P, that's a good thing, we all are humans and we all make mistakes, so no problem
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RyanHayward
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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2009, 06:54:33 AM »

Even if the graphics designer employed by the developer did "borrow" a few assets from some old metroid game, whats the big deal exactly?
Is it going to impact on Nintendo's already multi-million sales from the franchise?
Its not exactly unethical when you consider that new gameplay mechanics such as from Okami and Beautiful Katamari have been "copied" about 20 times already and not just from struggling indie developers and yet noone tries to drag them through the ashes like some witchhunt crusade.
Its an accepted fact that developers will "borrow" gameplay mechanics because even the big guns such as Ubisoft, EA and even Nintendo have "borrowed" gameplay mechanics from other games. if one starts suing the other then all hell will break loose because everyone literally steals ideas from someone else.
So please don't play the mighty moral high ground and point fingers at Indiana. He's the most awesome of indie rpg developers around and at least he corrected a mistake. I wonder how many times the likes of EA, Nintendo or Ubisoft have gone out of their way to not tread on the toes of their competitors. How many more genre clones do we need? If you ask me, its the indie scene that are keeping original ideas alive.
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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2009, 02:19:44 PM »

Fucking RPGMaker...
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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2009, 08:38:53 PM »

Even if the graphics designer employed by the developer did "borrow" a few assets from some old metroid game, whats the big deal exactly?
Is it going to impact on Nintendo's already multi-million sales from the franchise?
Its not exactly unethical when you consider that new gameplay mechanics such as from Okami and Beautiful Katamari have been "copied" about 20 times already and not just from struggling indie developers and yet noone tries to drag them through the ashes like some witchhunt crusade.
Its an accepted fact that developers will "borrow" gameplay mechanics because even the big guns such as Ubisoft, EA and even Nintendo have "borrowed" gameplay mechanics from other games. if one starts suing the other then all hell will break loose because everyone literally steals ideas from someone else.
So please don't play the mighty moral high ground and point fingers at Indiana. He's the most awesome of indie rpg developers around and at least he corrected a mistake. I wonder how many times the likes of EA, Nintendo or Ubisoft have gone out of their way to not tread on the toes of their competitors. How many more genre clones do we need? If you ask me, its the indie scene that are keeping original ideas alive.

Congratulations on not knowing anything about how things work.

You can't copyright or trademark a game mechanic. And image of Ridley, on the other hand, you most definitely can. And I assure you Nintendo did.

And please, "don't play the mighty moral high ground and point fingers at Indiana." That might be worth saying if the people pointing fingers were also lifting images, or (as you find equivalent) lifting gameplay mechanics and putting them into their own works. But as it stands, consumers (and potential consumers) have the right to be upset when these things happen. It's even more upsetting when an indie developer, whom one would hope is of a higher moral platitude then some mega-corporation, makes this mistake.

We understand it's not his fault. And yes, he makes great games (within RPGMaker). The graphics guy did it, and even then it was a "placeholder." Fine. But when you sell your games, you're "going commercial," you can and will become the target of criticism.
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« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2009, 08:51:14 PM »

Even if the graphics designer employed by the developer did "borrow" a few assets from some old metroid game, whats the big deal exactly?
Is it going to impact on Nintendo's already multi-million sales from the franchise?
Its not exactly unethical when you consider that new gameplay mechanics such as from Okami and Beautiful Katamari have been "copied" about 20 times already and not just from struggling indie developers and yet noone tries to drag them through the ashes like some witchhunt crusade.
Its an accepted fact that developers will "borrow" gameplay mechanics because even the big guns such as Ubisoft, EA and even Nintendo have "borrowed" gameplay mechanics from other games. if one starts suing the other then all hell will break loose because everyone literally steals ideas from someone else.
So please don't play the mighty moral high ground and point fingers at Indiana. He's the most awesome of indie rpg developers around and at least he corrected a mistake. I wonder how many times the likes of EA, Nintendo or Ubisoft have gone out of their way to not tread on the toes of their competitors. How many more genre clones do we need? If you ask me, its the indie scene that are keeping original ideas alive.

You can, however, claim that a unique game mechanic has been stolen.  See: In the Groove and DDR lawsuit, where Konami gained control of the ITG brand.  So, yes, game companies can - and do - sue each other when something like as a concept is stolen.  You saw it with DDR, you saw it with licensing in the NES era with Tengen/Nintendo, you see it in the toy industry with Mattel/Barbie versus the Bratz dolls.  I understand that it's a mistake that this got included in here, and I have nothing against the creators of Millennium, as I know it was not on purpose, but I have no respect for anyone who purposefully steals a piece of intellectual property - regardless of where it comes from.

Fact of the matter is, it's not as if it was a 'dragon design' that was taken - it was an exact piece of artwork.  When assets from another game get stolen - they do get pulled from store shelves.  Case in point: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Limbo of the Lost.  So, yes, companies DO come into conflict with each other, and there are safeguards in place so intellectual property laws are not broken.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 10:00:59 PM by KeeperX » Logged

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blackthirteen
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2009, 12:18:39 AM »



Case in point: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Limbo of the Lost.  So, yes, companies DO come into conflict with each other, and there are safeguards in place so intellectual property laws are not broken.

whoa, this act of steal is so blatant lol. The developer must be very stupid or something to use something so identical. It doesn't make sense.

Limbo:


Oblivion:


« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 12:26:07 AM by blackthirteen » Logged
spiritstorm
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« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2009, 09:33:52 PM »


whoa, this act of steal is so blatant lol. The developer must be very stupid or something to use something so identical. It doesn't make sense.


That's only one example, that game was caught blatantly ripping off whole areas from several other high profile games, not to mention stealing assets from movies as well.

@RyanHayward - Others have already responded to your main point, so I won't bother, but your last sentence also bugs me. I'm just curious how indie games are so much more innovative than traditionally developed games, cause I really don't see it. That seems to be a statement from someone who's simply jaded with big developers for whatever reason. There's a lot of same-old, same-old on both sides, but I see more innovation in commercial games on the whole than I do in indie games, particularly RPGMaker games, which is understandable given their technical restraints, but still is what it is.
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RyanHayward
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« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2009, 08:10:46 AM »

I just feel that alot of the big budget games are just becoming so horribly safe and therefore generic in execution. As for the indie scene being more refreshing, Take a look at Dawn's Light, quite easily one of the funniest games in history. It felt fresh to play and I literally couldn't wait to complete sidequests because something funny would always happen. Then there's Eschalon Book One which made me fall in love with western rpgs all over again with its old school charm and awesome storyline. Lately there's been Asguaard, an epic oldschool jrpg with gorgeous pixel art and plenty of secrets that are actually worth discovering as they aid you in your quest and in shops.
I haven't even bothered to purchase an xbox 360 or a PS3 as I just feel that msot of the games are focused on pleasing the gorehounds out there who are demanding "mature" themes. If you ask me, most of these games are bloody juvenile and offensive with their in-your-face gratuitous violence and with boring brown and gray graphics that have been the rage for the last 3 or 4 years now. The PS2 years were fantastic with the likes of Final Fantasy 12 and Dragon's Quest 8, not to mention my favourite game of all time, Suikoden 5. But this current generation just doesn't appeal to me as I feel mainstream games are really beginning to stagnate and are just the same shit but different smell. If you follow the indie scene as closely as I do, you will have come across around 20 games a year that are well and truly brilliant. Not only are they dirt cheap but you don't have to worry about upgrading your computer every 6 months as well.....

Edit - You are right that there are many rpgmaker games that are crap but in the last year the amount of great games being made with it has doubled. This year alone has seen about 5 games that are worth the asking price. Asguaard, Laxius Force 2, Millennium, Dawn's Light, Aveyond 3
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 08:18:32 AM by RyanHayward » Logged
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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2009, 09:25:58 AM »

You sir, need to step outside of your box and play something like Mass Effect or Brütal Legend. BR particularly comes from the mind of Tim Schafer, the king of good comedic gaming.

I follow indie gaming pretty closely. Funny you should mention that, because some of the best made games are ON current systems. For instance, Bit.Trip.Beat is one of the best rhythm/puzzle games in years, and it's a Wiiware title.

Seriously? Don't write off the current gen just because you haven't taken the time to play anything. I deal with enough crochety fogies at my age, most of which are younger than me. :P Progressive thinking people! Adapt, or die.

As to the whole "safe" thing: PLEASE, oh please don't say the word "safe" like it's evil and then cite Dragon Quest VIII as one of your favourite PS2 games. There is no better example of a "safe" concept than Dragon Quest VIII, save perhaps something like Mystic Quest. Dragon Quest VIII was as safe as they come.
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« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2009, 09:56:03 AM »

His entire post was one massive contradiction.  He complains that current gen games are "safe" i.e. they stick to a formula that works and are scared to innovate... then immediately champions indie projects for their old school flavor, i.e. games that stick to a tried and true formula.

Enjoy your indie games Ryan, but save your current generation critiques.  Games like Mirror's Edge, Portal, Little Big Planet, and so on are perfect examples of how wrong you are.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2009, 10:44:59 AM »

Eh, there's good, mediocre, and bad gaming in every genre, scene, whatever.  I'm massively supportive of indie gaming scenes and think the underground is awesome, but I certainly don't enjoy every indie game that comes down the pike.  I've already caught insane amounts of flack because I didn't really like Mount & Blade, Deadly Sin and a couple of others.  Love the scene, but I'm not going to like everything in it.  

I'm big into indie/underground music as well and love hearing start-up bands I'd never heard of before play in dingy basements.  I love the underground scene, going to basement shows, and discovering cool new bands, but I certainly don't like every band I see or hear.  Some of the bands I've encountered were terrible.  They may have been nice guys and all, but their music still didn't appeal to me.

It's like with food.  Some people like cilantro and other people think it's yucky.  

I still stand by my opinion of Millennium.  I really liked that game.  (Heh, and go figure, I touch upon that "safe" thing in my Persona PSP review.)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 10:53:54 AM by Dincrest » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2009, 12:43:21 AM »

Thanks for the reply Ryan, though like Parn said, I think you're contradicting yourself. Your main argument seems to stem more from your views on the quality of current gen games vs. indie games, and less on actual innovation, which was my contention. I'm not arguing there aren't quality indie games, there are. I simply disagree that indie games are pushing the envelope more than big budget titles, cause I simply don't think that's the case.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2010, 07:14:33 AM »

Well, controversy be damned, we at RPGFan still selected Millennium: A New Hope in the inaugural "indie RPG" category for our 2009 awards.

On a personal note, in terms of production values in RPGM games, Millennium's my current benchmark.   
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