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Author Topic: A Mana series retrospective.  (Read 904 times)
Kevadu
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« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2014, 08:32:41 PM »

the dungeon designs weren't very good.

...what?

I feel like you're telling me that up is down.  FFVI had the best dungeons in the entire series, bar none.  By a mile.
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Dice
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« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2014, 09:02:38 PM »

I actually really respect and take special notice when games do this.  I hate the whole "EVIL GOD FROM THE DARK MATTER" BS (as much as I love FF9, it should have stopped with Kuja).

Yu Yevon was the real bad guy!

geh...

I hate event fights even more. :/
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Klutz64
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« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2014, 09:13:56 PM »

I don't know how to feel about event fights. On one hand I agree with people who complain about cutscenes where really cool shit goes down that you can't be any part of and hating event fights would be a bit hypocritical. On the other hand, they tend to be a very lightly scripted bore.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2014, 09:19:28 PM »

the dungeon designs weren't very good.

...what?

I feel like you're telling me that up is down.  FFVI had the best dungeons in the entire series, bar none.  By a mile.

Maybe he's referring to that bonus dungeon in the GBA version? Its as awful as every other GBA era bonus dungeon. Compared to that, there are only like two or three dungeons in FFVI that are comparatively bad (Magitek Reseach Facililty, the Burning House and Gogo's Lair), and none of those suck nearly as hard as that bonus dungeon does.
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Damacon
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« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2014, 09:27:45 PM »

Dungeons? what are dungeons games don't have those anymore you should be happy with any dungeon you can get lol.
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« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2014, 09:48:34 PM »

*Obligatory Tales of Xillia has shitty dungeon (ie fuckall) post*
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Annubis
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« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2014, 09:50:02 PM »

Maybe he's referring to that bonus dungeon in the GBA version? Its as awful as every other GBA era bonus dungeon. Compared to that, there are only like two or three dungeons in FFVI that are comparatively bad (Magitek Reseach Facililty, the Burning House and Gogo's Lair), and none of those suck nearly as hard as that bonus dungeon does.

I'd add Cian's mind dungeon thing.
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« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2014, 09:52:16 PM »

Maybe he's referring to that bonus dungeon in the GBA version? Its as awful as every other GBA era bonus dungeon. Compared to that, there are only like two or three dungeons in FFVI that are comparatively bad (Magitek Reseach Facililty, the Burning House and Gogo's Lair), and none of those suck nearly as hard as that bonus dungeon does.

I'd add Cian's mind dungeon thing.

Wasn't even worth the character himself since there's like 7 other powerhouses.
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Damacon
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« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2014, 09:55:44 PM »

Ya way too many characters in ff3 or 6 or VI (damn them) I like that they made you use them in the last dungeon, but I feel if they would of just offed like 6 characters and developed the story of the others it could of been a even greater game.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2014, 10:58:25 PM »

FFVI's dungeons had the same proclivity towards being mazey and switch-pushy that a lot of other 16-bit RPGs had :T
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Kevadu
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« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2014, 11:27:29 PM »

But I like mazey dungeons.  I'm really sad that nobody seems to do that anymore.  Well, outside of some niche first person dungeon crawlers anyway.  Though I've never really cared for the whole first person thing.
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« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2014, 11:46:02 PM »

I hear you Kevadu, i would kill for some mazey button pushy dungeons instead of three room and a hallway dungeons that seem so popular now lol.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2014, 01:34:58 AM »

Maybe he's referring to that bonus dungeon in the GBA version? Its as awful as every other GBA era bonus dungeon. Compared to that, there are only like two or three dungeons in FFVI that are comparatively bad (Magitek Reseach Facililty, the Burning House and Gogo's Lair), and none of those suck nearly as hard as that bonus dungeon does.

I'd add Cian's mind dungeon thing.

Wasn't even worth the character himself since there's like 7 other powerhouses.

Esper. You get the Esper Alexander (and Cyan's SwdTech maxed out automatically), and by extension Pearl (re: Holy). You also concluded Cyan's character arc for the most part.

That said, while I hate Wrexsoul enough to X-zone his ass in spite of the loss of rewards (of course I think Doom could take him just as easily), due to the fact that he was my final brickwall back during the days when I was still reliant on renting the game from Blockbuster (once I got Anthology, the first thing I did was get back up to him and X-zone'd his ass, but that was half a decade later). But still, I can't really hate on the level itself due to being the last hurrah for the Magitek Armor (though it does mandate bringing in Terra so that I can play around in her custom M-Tek Armor). But yeah, if not for that it would definitely suck due to being stuck there until you completed the scenario (and yeah, Wrexsoul is really annoying when you don't properly understand his gimmick).


FFVI's dungeons had the same proclivity towards being mazey and switch-pushy that a lot of other 16-bit RPGs had :T

It did, but the encounter rate wasn't that insane unlike certain other games of that era I could name (*cough*BoF2*cough*), the dungeons were shorter than the average JRPGs' on the whole (like Narshe's Mines is probably the largest World of Balance dungeon with the Sealed Cave, the Magitek Research Facility and Zozo as the next three; and the World of Ruin isn't that much worse outside of major dungeons like the Phoenix Cave, Hidon's Cave, Inside Zone Eater and especially the final dungeon) and generally speaking, there was usually something going on in that dungeon that helped it stand out compared to the rest (Fanatic's Tower sealing everything but Magic and Item, Owser's House having weird trap doors and floating chests giving a haunted feeling, Zozo itself being a lie (not a town but a dungeon) filled with liars and building hopping, Mt. Kolts mystery shadow and gimmick boss fight (which like the aforementioned Wrexsoul was another brickwall for me back in the day; mostly due to not knowing a damn thing about Sabin or Fighting Games at the time, nor having a manual to explain his Blitz either), the chests treasures improving in the Cave to South Figaro and so on).

I mean, compare to Secret of Mana where after you leave the Lower Land, most regions/dungeons consist of A) smashing rocks, B) jumping across chasms with a whip, C) using the occasional spell on an orb, D) stepping on or hitting a switch, E) fighting a boss and F) occasionally finding the odd treasure chest. The most interesting dungeons in that game were Pure Land (for ambiance), the Mana Fortress (hell of a final dungeon), Moon Palace (for about a half-dozen reasons, mostly involving actually trying to get up to the bloody thing since you kept landing in the desert, the fact that Karen (lol Charon) was constantly on a lunch break, and actually trying to navigate the Palace itself (in spite of the fact that it consisted of all of two rooms and the Seed Chamber)), the Lofty Mountains (fuck you Jerk), the Sunken Continent/Great Palace (mostly for the former and its subway system and the fact that its by far the largest dungeon in the game), the first visit to the Desert (namely due to the Sand Ship), the Crystal Forest (again for ambiance), any of the Ruins (yet again with the ambiance, although Thanos being involved usually meant plot and one of those obnoxious brick wall bosses) and the Upper Land (for the whole Four Seasons thing; also Moogles), the rest were some kind of variation of the above sentence (especially if they involved a goddamn cave).
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Der Jermeister
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« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2014, 09:57:50 PM »

I tend to not care about dungeon design as long as there are ample save opportunities and automaps. For the latter to be absent has in my view been largely inexcusable since A Link to the Past had them.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2014, 10:59:04 PM »

Heck even the Original Zelda had auto maps for the dungeons.
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