Author Topic: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010

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supersonic

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #345 on: March 11, 2011, 01:16:41 PM »
I have it on pre-order and can't wait to play it. Just need to finish Eternal Mana before AT3 arrives.

puzzl

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #346 on: March 11, 2011, 02:09:14 PM »
"On top of that, the tired JRPG "save the world" plotline is still present."

Here are a few hit games from the past few years, and their plotlines:

Uncharted 2 - save the world
Mass Effect 2 - save the universe
Call of Duty whatever - save the world
Dragon Age: Origins - save the world

John

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #347 on: March 11, 2011, 02:25:46 PM »
Pretty much any RPG is going to be a variant of one of the seven classic plots (man vs man or man vs environment tend to be the most common).

That being said, having just played Dragon Age II, it was incredibly nice to not see a "Hawke is out to save the world" plotline there directly.

Now, with the man vs man (super evil badguy) or man vs environment (super evil society) or man versus supernatural (super evil mystical thing) being common, there's a great deal you can do to make this better.  Mass Effect 2 and Uncharted 2 provide absolutely fantastic interpersonal growth between the characters, palpable tension, and good writing to make them better.  I can't speak much for DA:O, as I've never finished it, but the same writing is incredibly important to what makes this game worthwhile.  I also can't speak for Call of Duty, because despite having owned the past four games, I think I fall into the masses there when I say that the plot in those games doesn't matter - gameplay is the focus, not the story.

Having played bits of AT3 myself and having talked to Kimberley throughout her review process, the writing in this title doesn't come anywhere close to providing that same kind of experience.  What it provides is a chiche; all three of the aforementioned titles provide some form of cliche in them, but they are overlaid with more impressive writing and characters.  I can't say the same for AT3.
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Eusis

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #348 on: March 11, 2011, 02:38:04 PM »
Call of Duty stories are pretty much just blockbuster action movie fluff - but they DO a very good job with presentation as anyone who played for MW1 knows.

ZeronHitaro

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #349 on: March 11, 2011, 02:40:38 PM »
What it provides is a chiche; all three of the aforementioned titles provide some form of cliche in them, but they are overlaid with more impressive writing and characters.  I can't say the same for AT3.

Isn't that basically what anything NIS/NISA or Gust touches is all about? I mean from Disgaea all the way up to Hyper Dimension Neptunia I've always gotten the impression that their stories are all "self-aware" cliches to one degree or another; only instead of trying to take themselves seriously they simply break the 4th wall or do something absurd in order to provide a fun little ride along the way.

It's kind of a "you should expect this" at this point y'know? Buying a NIS/NISA or Gust game and judging it for having over the top ye-olde-cliche is like judging a Michael Bay moving for having too many explosions and jokes about big steel balls. What else could you have possibly expected? XD
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 02:43:39 PM by ZeronHitaro »

Kstar

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #350 on: March 11, 2011, 02:45:52 PM »
Here's what you did.  You took one sentence of my review and didn't list the next sentence, which was "If the series figured out a way to make it all feel new again, it could work, but here the narrative is about as compelling as a bad 80s movie."

The overall plot is weak.  The games you listed figured out ways to make it feel fresh.  There are unique character relationships, which is its saving grace, but as far as the overall plot goes - it's dull and unimpressive.  I was extremely bored with it.  

EDIT:  I just want to say even setting aside the cliches, the plot isn't all that entertaining. 
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 02:53:28 PM by Kstar »
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John

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #351 on: March 11, 2011, 02:50:20 PM »
What it provides is a chiche; all three of the aforementioned titles provide some form of cliche in them, but they are overlaid with more impressive writing and characters.  I can't say the same for AT3.

Isn't that basically what anything NIS/NISA or Gust touches is all about? I mean from Disgaea all the way up to Hyper Dimension Neptunia I've always gotten the impression that their stories are all "self-aware" cliches to one degree or another; only instead of trying to take themselves seriously they simply break the 4th wall or do something absurd in order to provide a fun little ride along the way.

It's kind of a "you should expect this" at this point y'know? Buying a NIS/NISA or Gust game and judging it for having over the top ye-olde-cliche is like judging a Michael Bay moving for having too many explosions and jokes about big steel balls. What else could you have possibly expected? XD

I hear you that it's expected and that these games fill a niche - that's what NISA does, they publish games to a specific niche - the type of person that's probably been in /h/ on 4chan at least once.  That being said, having seen some of AT3 as Kimberley reviewed it, it's more than even I would have bargained for.
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kyuusei

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #352 on: March 11, 2011, 02:51:40 PM »
Call of Duty stories are pretty much just blockbuster action movie fluff - but they DO a very good job with presentation as anyone who played for MW1 knows.

I do love the presentation. Not only that, but Call of Duty doesn't always save the world either. Well.. maybe indirectly by killing dictators. A lot of them come off more as personal vendettas, especially Black Ops and that whole mindfuck.

No one really plays the campaigns anyway, do they? Those games are all about the multiplayer.

Kevadu

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #353 on: March 11, 2011, 02:54:09 PM »
I found that Atelier Rorona was a nice break from the old 'save the world' cliche.  Though it was still loaded with cliched characters.

Of course, cliche doesn't have to be bad.  As others have said, it's really all about the writing.

Back to AT3, I think the review was tough but fair.  It really is a shame since I loved the first two games.  At this point I'm too invested in the world and story not to finish the trilogy, but I think it's pretty clear that this isn't exactly Gust's finest moment.

ZeronHitaro

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #354 on: March 11, 2011, 02:54:51 PM »
What it provides is a chiche; all three of the aforementioned titles provide some form of cliche in them, but they are overlaid with more impressive writing and characters.  I can't say the same for AT3.

Isn't that basically what anything NIS/NISA or Gust touches is all about? I mean from Disgaea all the way up to Hyper Dimension Neptunia I've always gotten the impression that their stories are all "self-aware" cliches to one degree or another; only instead of trying to take themselves seriously they simply break the 4th wall or do something absurd in order to provide a fun little ride along the way.

It's kind of a "you should expect this" at this point y'know? Buying a NIS/NISA or Gust game and judging it for having over the top ye-olde-cliche is like judging a Michael Bay moving for having too many explosions and jokes about big steel balls. What else could you have possibly expected? XD

I hear you that it's expected and that these games fill a niche - that's what NISA does, they publish games to a specific niche - the type of person that's probably been in /h/ on 4chan at least once.  That being said, having seen some of AT3 as Kimberley reviewed it, it's more than even I would have bargained for.

Heh, oddly I've never been on either; then again that's probably why I cannot detect the things that people complain about in AT2. XD I guess there are some advantages to having a skull denser than lead.

I can believe that the series is degraded though; and I have no doubts it won't be as good as the prior two. If I could remember the specific date/time this happened I wouldn't be surprised if this "spike" in more blatant innuendo is a sort of "rebellion" on the part of the game writers against the tougher laws regarding H-material recently pushed through in Japan (basically toeing the line like Hollywood does all the time to see what crap they can get away with). If nothing else it should be worth a play just for the music from what I've been hearing on Youtube. (It amazes me this only got an 83% percent in sound when it has some of the most gorgeous Hymnos tunes yet).
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 02:56:35 PM by ZeronHitaro »

Annubis

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #355 on: March 11, 2011, 02:55:44 PM »
The overall plot is weak.  The games you listed figured out ways to make it feel fresh.  There are unique character relationships, which is its saving grace, but as far as the overall plot goes - it's dull and unimpressive.  I was extremely bored with it.  

EDIT:  I just want to say even setting aside the cliches, the plot isn't all that entertaining.  

Either the game is awful or the review is harsh. Can't say until I play it though.
68% does mean a broken game. That's a D+

If nothing else it should be worth a play just for the music from what I've been hearing on Youtube. (It amazes me this only got an 83% percent in sound when it has some of the most gorgeous Hymnos tunes yet).

I've listen to the battle themes on Youtube and they are top quality. Not sure where the problem is, exploration BGM?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 02:58:06 PM by Annubis »

ZeronHitaro

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #356 on: March 11, 2011, 02:58:33 PM »
The overall plot is weak.  The games you listed figured out ways to make it feel fresh.  There are unique character relationships, which is its saving grace, but as far as the overall plot goes - it's dull and unimpressive.  I was extremely bored with it.  

EDIT:  I just want to say even setting aside the cliches, the plot isn't all that entertaining.  

Either the game is awful or the review is harsh. Can't say until I play it though.
68% does mean a broken game. That's a D+

Ironic statement; considering Ar Tonelico II literally was a broken game (Game crashing bug near last boss you couldn't avoid unless winning within X turns) and it scored 81%. XD
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Y'know I'm actually really looking forward to this game now that I realized something in the review. If my front liners are going to do to jack squat for damage, and if I'm only going to be able to take up the Reyvatiel 2 or 3 stages depending on the costume to avoid the awkward underwear scenes then this game might be the first Ar Tonelico that's actually a "challenge" in combat.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 03:02:53 PM by ZeronHitaro »

Kstar

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #357 on: March 11, 2011, 03:15:27 PM »
It's mostly the background music that made me have to grade it down, plus a lot of overused music at that.  Also, the voice actors got put into the mix of the score, and they were on and off for delivering lines well. 

Game isn't too difficult, there's part of getting the true ending that can be tough, but not god awful. 
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ZeronHitaro

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #358 on: March 11, 2011, 03:22:07 PM »
Ahhh, VAs; should've known. XD

Are we talking "Don't kill even one party member by accident"-Disgaea tough (not that hard) or are we talking "OMG you missed that one conversation on the landmass that sank irrevocably about 3 hours ago so restart or take your "meh" ending"-AT2 tough (how the hell could you do that to me game!)?

For the "God awful" scale I'd probably use Valkyrie Profile as reference.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 03:24:18 PM by ZeronHitaro »

Kstar

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #359 on: March 11, 2011, 03:28:45 PM »
It's tough as in your party gets hit with attacks that take away a lot of HP, so it's hard to stay alive.  It took me about three tries.  Also, what's good about Qoga is if you get the bad or normal ending, the game let's you restart back at the spot that decides whether or not you get the true ending. You also keep the levels that your characters were at when you got the normal/bad ending.  That helps a lot.  I recommend going for the normal and then restarting from the point that makes the decision for the true ending.  The higher your level for that battle, the better.    
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 03:34:00 PM by Kstar »
"We're all lying in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" -Oscar Wilde

"To be a star, you must shine your own light, follow your own path, and don't worry about the darkness, for that is when the stars shine brightest."