Author Topic: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010

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ZeronHitaro

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #405 on: March 12, 2011, 10:17:38 AM »
Y'know not to try and be rude but I honestly have to wonder; how many of you that are saying the game should be degraded/ignored for the sexism pay money for cable/satellite television? Or to go watch movies? (Within the past 20 years.) If so, and you haven't been barking at other people to do the same; you're kind of being hypocritical.

I'm not saying sexism is right, or even "funny"; but point out to me one major time period within the past 20 years where American movies, television, (heck probably even modern literature) was not stepped in the sexist notions of "Guys are idiots." "Guys only have sex on the brain." "If something goes wrong between a man and a woman it's automatically the guy's fault until proven otherwise". Modern American culture is stuffed to the brim with anti-guy sexism; yet I don't see people calling those instances out. But if there's sexism about a woman in a medium...sound the alarms!

Again, haven't played the game, not trying to be particularly mean here towards anyway; just saying it seems kind of...odd.

PotRoast

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #406 on: March 12, 2011, 10:23:54 AM »
Quote
The only reviewer so far that has really made a good job has been Patrick.

Go fuck yourself.  It's one thing to say that your opinions align with Patrick's when it comes to reviews, but it's another to say that my staff doesn't do a good job.  You claim you don't want to offend, but that statement proves otherwise.  Eat a dick.



Dude, it really does feel like the quality of the reviews has dropped dramatically over the past 2-3 years. And this comes from somebody who has been reading your site since the PSX days. I liked that even the reviews that concluded a game is bad were still useful to read because they were written in such a way that people with differing tastes than the reviewer could still get useful information about whether to buy the game or not.

I've never played a game in the series Ar3 is in and I still don't have much interest in doing so. I have no investment in whether this site reviews the games well or not. Still, I tried to read Kimberly's review and I stopped because it was boring. It isn't just Kimberly whose reviews have done this to me. Even some of your long time staff seems to be on the decline in quality.

If this is your site, you should be concerned that some of your readers think it's becoming irrelevant. Telling your critics to "eat a dick" shows such immaturity that it actually lanswers some of my concerns about decline in this site's quality: that the decline is happening at the very top and is trickling down.

CDFN

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #407 on: March 12, 2011, 10:35:29 AM »
Y'know not to try and be rude but I honestly have to wonder; how many of you that are saying the game should be degraded/ignored for the sexism pay money for cable/satellite television? Or to go watch movies? (Within the past 20 years.) If so, and you haven't been barking at other people to do the same; you're kind of being hypocritical.

I'm not saying sexism is right, or even "funny"; but point out to me one major time period within the past 20 years where American movies, television, (heck probably even modern literature) was not stepped in the sexist notions of "Guys are idiots." "Guys only have sex on the brain." "If something goes wrong between a man and a woman it's automatically the guy's fault until proven otherwise". Modern American culture is stuffed to the brim with anti-guy sexism; yet I don't see people calling those instances out. But if there's sexism about a woman in a medium...sound the alarms!

Again, haven't played the game, not trying to be particularly mean here towards anyway; just saying it seems kind of...odd.

It's different. The problem here is that the game is based around stripping the female characters and to make things worse these characters are clearly made to appear being underage. The previous games had innuendo in the dialogue and some sugestive artwork in the cosmospheres, but this is obviously taking the fanservice to questionable levels, specially considering that there seems to be an obvious intention to make the characters look even younger than the ones in the previous games.
I haven't played the game so I don't know how it holds up when you look beyond these things, but people need to respect each other's opinions. I think it's easy to see why some people have issues with this game but those people also need to respect others who may enjoy it.
Wildarms was coming across as the typical fanboy who gets offended when somebody says bad things about his favorite game. Let's show some maturity.
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John

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #408 on: March 12, 2011, 10:35:47 AM »
Tell you what mate, I will respect that opinion, but I want some proof.

I've written about 50 reviews for this website over the past nine years on a grip of systems.  If you can show me where there has been severe decline in my ability to do so, I will put legitimate thought to what you've said.  What I am asking you to not do, however, is to critique another of my writers without asking them.  I'm putting my own writing out there because I'm confident in it.  I think my earliest writing for the site is easily my weakest, both from an opinion standpoint and from a linguistic standpoint.

So, please, feel free.  Sorry that PS2 and GBA aren't sortable, since quite a few of my reviews were on those platforms, but anything marked with "John McCarroll" is game.

Edit: As an FYI, I can respect your opinion much more because you're presenting it in such a way that there's at least a modicum of respect there.  I'm a human being and chances are I'm wont to react the way that I'm presented information.  I have no problem with constructive criticism and I'm more than willing to take it.  If you can provide me with examples on what you think would be a significant improvement in how I review titles, I will certainly take them into consideration.   I don't agree with what WildArms has said, however, and I responded in the same way it was presented to me: disrespectfully.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 10:43:17 AM by KeeperX »
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Starmongoose

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #409 on: March 12, 2011, 10:42:50 AM »
The only thing that has made me a bit wary about all this is that now I am scared to disagree with a review in case I get banned. Of course, I wouldn't be nearly as douchey as WildArms but the feeling is definitely there.



Someone hold me and tell me everything is going to be okay. ;_;


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John

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #410 on: March 12, 2011, 10:46:52 AM »
The only thing that has made me a bit wary about all this is that now I am scared to disagree with a review in case I get banned. Of course, I wouldn't be nearly as douchey as WildArms but the feeling is definitely there.



Someone hold me and tell me everything is going to be okay. ;_;

WildArms got banned because his response was douchey and disrespected our writers with baseless accusations, not because he disagreed with us.  I hadn't banned anyone myself in quite literally years.

Hell, I know there's an audience that's going to love this game regardless.  It's plain as day and I've mentioned it several times.  There's nothing wrong with liking your favorite games and there's nothing wrong with hating your least favorite games.  I know that there are many people out there that disagree with my Dragon Age II review; they feel it's been dumbed down compared to DA:O.  I respect their opinions, because that's their experience.  I don't respect the people, however, that make baseless accusatory statements.
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Starmongoose

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #411 on: March 12, 2011, 10:52:16 AM »
Quite good, quite good. Then no great loss has occurred.

As for this game, I literally couldn't have any less desire to watch ten year old girls strip.


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cj_iwakura

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #412 on: March 12, 2011, 11:04:46 AM »
Personally, I thought it was a good review. I'm another long-term Ar Tonelico fan, despite the series' continual flaws, and this sounds like the game just keeps making the bad worse and the good nonexistent.

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supersonic

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #413 on: March 12, 2011, 11:16:31 AM »
One thing that annoys me about this thread is the whole "the AT series can only be enjoyed by a very specific demographic (ie. perverts, pedophiles sexists, otakus, losers, basement-dwellers, what have you)". No, I enjoy this series because of its gameplay and the level of character interactions that is not commonly seen in other games, and I also appreciate the level of detail and lore that was developed in the first two games. It is quite possible that AT3 is worse than the first two games, after all, I though that AT2 was a step down from AT1, but I won't know that until I have played the game.

And if an administrator tells a user of his site "eat a dick" (regardless of what that user may have said), that just sucks.

John

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #414 on: March 12, 2011, 11:17:31 AM »
One other thing I want to make note of and then I think I'm done in the thread so that discussion can actually return to the game itself.

I want to apologize for my outburst yesterday; RPGFan is a labor of love for all involved and sometimes it's difficult to feel like you and the people you have a great deal of respect for have been baselessly accused.  This doesn't excuse my behavior, and I used much stronger language than I should have.

I will respect anyone's opinion, and please, feel free to e-mail me: johnm@rpgfan.com.  You could love Mana Khemia PSP (the lowest score I've given) or hate Digital Devil Saga 2 (the highest score I've given), but as long as you don't present things in such a way that you're claiming that my opinion is wrong and your opinion is right, we're cool.  WildArms might end up loving Ar Tonelico 3.  Our reviews don't exist to tell you how you should feel about a game - they are a baseline for our experience with said title.  Yours will inexplicably be different.  I remember the first time I wrote a review that was controversial, Fable, way back in 2004.  One of the posts that I found on the internet really struck me, and it's how I tend to think of reviewing.  The actual words are long gone, but I remember the gist of it:

"[poster who disparaged me], I don't think you and the reviewer are playing different games.  I think that just as you see one of the best RPGs you've ever played, he sees a mediocre game that does little to move the genre.  Neither of you are wrong - they're your unique experiences with the game."

If ever we are factually wrong in a review, e-mail me and I will see it fixed.  We make mistakes, just like anyone else.  Our reviews are guidelines to our experience with the games, and at that, they are opinion.

Thank you,
-John McCarroll
RPGFan Webmaster
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 11:24:38 AM by KeeperX »
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Starmongoose

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #415 on: March 12, 2011, 11:24:15 AM »
I did love Mana Khemia as it so happens. ;D


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John

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #416 on: March 12, 2011, 11:25:10 AM »
I did love Mana Khemia as it so happens. ;D

Mana Khemia is great.  The PSP port is abysmal, especially on UMD.  The PSN version fixed a lot of the load time issues, but it was still a bad port.
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Starmongoose

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #417 on: March 12, 2011, 11:32:36 AM »
Ah, I have had no experience with the PSP version - I overlooked the "PSP" part when you said Mana Khemia as I was flooded with good memories.

I need to track down the first Ar Tonelico, as I have two but I really want to play the first one before it. Soon.

Supersonic: I actually have an interest in the AT series. The thing is, as someone who is not within the demographic that this sort of humour, innuendo or sexuality is supposed to cater to, I have to weigh up whether the game is fun enough to like DESPITE that. AT 1 and 2, from what I've read and heard from people on the Fan, seem to be the sort of games I can grow to love despite it. AT3 however seems to have very little redeeming qualities as I cannot even enjoy it for its gratuitous sexual scenes.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 11:34:42 AM by Starmongoose »


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cj_iwakura

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #418 on: March 12, 2011, 11:33:44 AM »
Ar Tonelico 1: better story, great music, decent gameplay.

AT2: mediocre story, great music, fantastic gameplay.

Croix was cool people though.

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Re: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010
« Reply #419 on: March 12, 2011, 12:03:26 PM »
Hard to do much about a negative review in the first place.  The greatest irony is it's the people who HAVEN'T played the title who do the complaining because I guess it "shatters their dreams" (or something) in a new title, especially one like ArTone.  Hell, I remember when veteran GameFAQs-er and RPG-Importer, Ashley Winchester, posted a 7/10 review for FF13 and received backlash like you wouldn't believe.  Funny enough, I think some of us would now call that grade "too high".

Another fun case was recently when Leyv reviewed Tales of Graces, gave an AWESOME review (RPGfan's "Editor's Choice" in fact), but people on Tales forum complained about the score on basis of an "WRPG-slanted reviewer".  

How the fuck can we argue someone else's opinion is what makes me more amazed.  Unless there is a LEGIT fact that is WRONG, they can be discussed, but I don't understand how it can be disputed.  Opinion's can't be wrong...they can be stupid, are fucking retarded, but they can't be wrong.  Quality of writing is one thing, perhaps content of the review is another (and yeah, the AT3 review missed a few things, but that always happens as far as I'm concerned in some reviews).  But to slam a review for a game that hasn't been played is just ridiculous.  Better yet, who the fuck knows, maybe your opinion will differ when a when you buy the game.  I think I'm one of four people on this forum who'd actually have good things to say about Star Ocean 4 (and even SO3 to some degree); reviewers hated it, I didn't give a fuck.  I don't understand why people have to fight about a review and not chalk it to "one man's opinion".

Lastly, Zeron, goddammit man, it's different.  AT3 makes jokes like the B-grade American Pie movie that followed the original 3.  And yeah, I thought some of us *did* complain when a movie was rife with stereotypes.  It's one thing to see some sexy in a movie, but another to see young kinds being stripped down to their undies for "magical purposes" (that's anime for you??).  The problem is too, this kind of shit has been seen in anime SOO often that when you see, as Kim's review did "It's the standard RPG story", you know EXACTLY what she means.  Like Hollywood pumping classics from the 50's-80's to the bigscreen again, we have repeated anime tropes and predictable characters that you can read based on their face alone.  And are you seriously questioning a purchase on a game because we don't want to see stupid-sex jokes and "little girls"...LITTLE GIRLS being stripped??  Why the hell not?  It's bad enough the game has been, across the entire gaming review board, given an average grade (furthermore, can you imagine someone other than an otaku seeing you play that?  You lucked out with your wife being in the same ballpark as you).  What worries me is the few anime hentai I've seen have our "shy character" who's too scared to say "dick", but opts for "your big thing".... if AT3 has any innuendo's about "big things", I'll listen to 8 hours of Canadian stand-up comedy (which blows ass) then shoot myself.

I guess the game works, again, if you've "grown up" and you're used to all those anime-touches thrown at you, but then youre walking into something you're ready for.

In regards to sexism, I thought we all kinda rolled our eyes when FFX-2's Yuna was revealed, and Bayonetta came in to mock/shove the "sexy" idea right back at you.  To each their own, though.
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