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Subject: Persona 3: FES
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Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: Ar tonelico 3 coming to the PS3 January 2010  (Read 87057 times)
Dice
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« Reply #510 on: March 17, 2011, 12:05:52 AM »


Shame the battle system isn't that good - people here know (maybe) I love real-time battles, keeps your mind more active than any turn-based title.  Shame this one isn't all that good... real shame. =(


Actually as a stand alone real-time battle system; it's not bad. Sort of "Tales of..." light. The only reason I'm terribly critical of it is it has to live up to the unique systems AT and AT2 created before it. Compared to those it's a let down; without comparing it though...*shrugs* I'd say it's not the worst RTB I've ever touched.

I appreciate it, but you're kinda bias to begin with (arguing for it even before release; then again, I'm sure I'd juin to defend SO4 again if the time came for it again).  But I do like the feedback, and so quickly.  I may give it a shot; again when it's cheap-cheap-cheap.  I loved Ar Tone 2's system a helluva lot (the rest of the game, and actual LACK of emphasis on the battle system was a disappointment).
Ar Tone to me has always been a weird series; the adopted kid who's a bit strange, but different and fantastic, but has trouble finding a home with people because it is different and strange (and, adopted kid analogy aside, lacks polish).
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #511 on: March 17, 2011, 12:18:41 AM »


Shame the battle system isn't that good - people here know (maybe) I love real-time battles, keeps your mind more active than any turn-based title.  Shame this one isn't all that good... real shame. =(


Actually as a stand alone real-time battle system; it's not bad. Sort of "Tales of..." light. The only reason I'm terribly critical of it is it has to live up to the unique systems AT and AT2 created before it. Compared to those it's a let down; without comparing it though...*shrugs* I'd say it's not the worst RTB I've ever touched.

I appreciate it, but you're kinda bias to begin with (arguing for it even before release; then again, I'm sure I'd juin to defend SO4 again if the time came for it again).  But I do like the feedback, and so quickly.  I may give it a shot; again when it's cheap-cheap-cheap.  I loved Ar Tone 2's system a helluva lot (the rest of the game, and actual LACK of emphasis on the battle system was a disappointment).
Ar Tone to me has always been a weird series; the adopted kid who's a bit strange, but different and fantastic, but has trouble finding a home with people because it is different and strange (and, adopted kid analogy aside, lacks polish).

That'd probably be the best idea is just to wait. Unlike other games like Tales of... and Star Ocean for example, the AT3 battle system is a bit slow. Five hours in and I only have one (Direction) + Square attack unlocked for a single character. So unlike those other titles where you have nifty tricks of the trade to learn and enjoy right out the gate AT3 looks like it'll make you wait a long while for the real elements of the battle system to kick in. That sort of slow build up isn't probably worth it "just" for the combat unless you're enjoying the ride along the way; which in AT3's case is probably an awkward ride for many.

Lol, I am indeed biased but I'm not afraid to call something out as bad when I see it.
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Kevadu
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« Reply #512 on: March 17, 2011, 05:39:55 PM »

Anyone try this game on hard?  I thought the first two Ar Tonelico games were much too easy so I thought I would give this one a go on hard.  Got completely slaughtered in the first fight.  You know, the stupid tutorial thing against Mute when you don't even have a revytail yet.  To quantity how badly I got slaughtered, let's bring out some numbers.  On normal Mute does ~10 of damage to you per hit and you're doing ~30 to her per hit.  On hard she's doing ~50 to you per hit and you're doing ~2.  Yes, 2.  That isn't hard, that's broken.  Since you have so few options in combat at this point I don't see how that fight is even winnable.  This isn't enough of an action game to make dodging around and slowly chipping away at your enemy's HP even possible.

Needless to say I restarted on normal.
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« Reply #513 on: March 17, 2011, 05:51:23 PM »

Anyone try this game on hard?  I thought the first two Ar Tonelico games were much too easy so I thought I would give this one a go on hard.  Got completely slaughtered in the first fight.  You know, the stupid tutorial thing against Mute when you don't even have a revytail yet.  To quantity how badly I got slaughtered, let's bring out some numbers.  On normal Mute does ~10 of damage to you per hit and you're doing ~30 to her per hit.  On hard she's doing ~50 to you per hit and you're doing ~2.  Yes, 2.  That isn't hard, that's broken.  Since you have so few options in combat at this point I don't see how that fight is even winnable.  This isn't enough of an action game to make dodging around and slowly chipping away at your enemy's HP even possible.

Needless to say I restarted on normal.


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Annubis
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« Reply #514 on: March 17, 2011, 05:57:00 PM »

Anyone try this game on hard?  I thought the first two Ar Tonelico games were much too easy so I thought I would give this one a go on hard.  Got completely slaughtered in the first fight.  You know, the stupid tutorial thing against Mute when you don't even have a revytail yet.  To quantity how badly I got slaughtered, let's bring out some numbers.  On normal Mute does ~10 of damage to you per hit and you're doing ~30 to her per hit.  On hard she's doing ~50 to you per hit and you're doing ~2.  Yes, 2.  That isn't hard, that's broken.  Since you have so few options in combat at this point I don't see how that fight is even winnable.  This isn't enough of an action game to make dodging around and slowly chipping away at your enemy's HP even possible.

Needless to say I restarted on normal.

I remember MasterLL saying basically the same thing, as he switched to normal for his playthrough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unIclcQagLU
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ZeronHitaro
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« Reply #515 on: March 17, 2011, 06:40:20 PM »

Hard mode sounds neigh unplayable then; as there's some battles I've encountered in Normal mode I cannot imagine being beatable if that increase in enemy power holds constant. The tutorial battle for Purging comes to mind; as that boss-like enemy has a ton of HP and takes absolutely 0 damage from your physical attacks; while still slinging out nice shots of its own.

Add to the calculation that the AI doesn't seem very good at defending and drops just as fast if not faster than the player controlled character...
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Dice
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« Reply #516 on: March 17, 2011, 06:43:15 PM »

Hard mode sounds neigh unplayable then; as there's some battles I've encountered in Normal mode I cannot imagine being beatable if that increase in enemy power holds constant. The tutorial battle for Purging comes to mind; as that boss-like enemy has a ton of HP and takes absolutely 0 damage from your physical attacks; while still slinging out nice shots of its own.

Add to the calculation that the AI doesn't seem very good at defending and drops just as fast if not faster than the player controlled character...

I'm still a pussy to do the top-tier levels of Star Ocean games...  I did Abyss' for a bit, it was easy enough, just boring when (same with AT3 here), you deal next to nil damage.

Fuck with me, that just doesn't look right for a hard mode - IIRC he said that was a tutorial battle too!!!
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« Reply #517 on: March 17, 2011, 06:47:54 PM »

Honestly the very first Mute fight doesn't feel like a "Tutorial" battle to me. Instead it has more of that first battle in FF II feeling; where you're just thrown into the action almost right away without much introduction. Only in this case you're actually supposed to win. I might try a file on Hard sometime after beating the game just to see how horrifically poorly I perform.
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Annubis
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« Reply #518 on: March 17, 2011, 07:00:41 PM »

Well, I played AT1 without ever equipping ANY equipment and steamrolled the game.
In AT2 I was killing IPD lvl 9 at ~lvl 35

Maybe they wanted people to stop moaning about the AT franchise being way too easy, but somehow turned the knob a bit too high.
Still, I'm sure people will still be able to do it; I mean, a guy did a 37-crystal run in Valkyrie Profile 2.

EDIT: dear lord, this was written awfully.
EDIT 2: on 37 crystal, the tutorial battle took him 4 hours
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 11:54:25 PM by Annubis » Logged
Madoka
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« Reply #519 on: March 17, 2011, 09:07:25 PM »

I meana guy did a 37-crystal run in Valkyrie Profile 2.
Fucking really? Shit, I did beat the game, but I thought normal was pretty challenging.
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Nel
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« Reply #520 on: March 19, 2011, 08:17:43 PM »

Each game is stand-alone for the most part, right? I always was interested in the first two, but if it's some big trilogy that ends on a console I don't even have then I won't bother. (The prices on those games on their site is very tempting, I'll admit.)
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supersonic
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« Reply #521 on: March 19, 2011, 08:34:52 PM »

My copy arrived today and played for an hour and a half. Enjoying it so far.
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Cyril
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« Reply #522 on: March 19, 2011, 09:05:09 PM »

Each game is stand-alone for the most part, right? I always was interested in the first two, but if it's some big trilogy that ends on a console I don't even have then I won't bother. (The prices on those games on their site is very tempting, I'll admit.)

I'm very, very into the Ar tonelico world and the lore-freak in me is screaming "No absolutely not!"

But in reality, it's more like "Yes and no."  You can play them stand-alone, but some things will be a bit confusing at first.

The games are all connected using the same lore and characters.  For example, terms remain the same throughout. Reyvateil, Beta Reyvateil, Third Generation, Origins, Hymnos, Servers, Viruses, the like.  AT2 is different than AT1 and AT3 in almost every way, lore-wise, because of the differences in tower and server structure.  For example, a character from Tower 2 appears in AT3 and is still able to sing even though Sol Cluster's Song Server is down because she is structured completely differently and her "data" comes from a different server, and her SoulSpace resides on a different server as well.  

If none of what I'm saying makes sense to you, there will be times you're confused. Especially during the second half of the game.
What you really need to remember is that this is actually a science-fiction game.  They use words like "Song Magic" and whatnot, but it isn't magic and the cute little girls are basically computers who run off of larger networks and servers.

I'd say AT3 is probably the worst of the bunch to start with, though, since the lore is so heavily ingrained into it.  There are entire parts of the story you'll miss (For example, why items like the Heart of Gaea exist and where it comes from).  But other than the important lore bits, the stories are relatively stand-alone except for some cameos.

Also, this game takes a while to get started.  If you drop it within the first hour I'd suggest playing a bit more.  If I only played for an hour, I'd end up with a bad taste in my mouth.  I'd say the game doesn't even start until halfway through Phase 2.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 09:07:36 PM by Cyril » Logged
Nel
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« Reply #523 on: March 19, 2011, 10:16:48 PM »

Well, I'm not planning on playing Ar Tonelico Qoga at any point, since I have no PS3. Of course nothing's going to make sense if you explain the game using in-game terminology that I don't even know, and it's almost off-putting, but I suppose it's something I could ease into while actually playing. I just always got the impression that each game was loosely connected, but playing all three would reward a fan with a connection here or there, like Dragon Quest's Zenithia trilogy or the Legend Of Heroes' Gagharv trilogy.
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Cyril
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« Reply #524 on: March 19, 2011, 10:32:08 PM »

No, the games are absolutely more connected than the DQ trilogy.   It's not a "loose" connection at all.  If you don't play DQIV/V you can still completely understand DQVI, but you can't play AT3 and completely understand it without having played 1 and 2. That's not saying you can't understand it at all, because you can, but a good bit of minor details will go over your head. 

Honestly, AT3 feels like it was meant entirely for people who have played AT1 and 2.  There's quite a bit they don't explain other than in the encyclopedia, and even then there's some bits that aren't elaborated on.  In comparison, AT1 and AT2 throw terms at you constantly and slowly define them as the game goes on, but AT3 assumes you know them in the first place.

For example, surely you've seen the images of the girls changing forms and "bodies"? The blonde girl turning into a busty woman, for example. This is because the Reyvateils ("girls") are made of an artificial substance known as "D-Cellophane."  This allows them to modify their forms.  One character in particular describes it only as: "We're all made of the same substance, but organized differently."  There's also another character who goes from having no physical form at all to having a complete body in mere seconds - a scene that would make absolutely no sense unless you knew of this phenomenon with D-Cellophane.
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