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Author Topic: Most under-rated games ever?  (Read 17419 times)
Eusis
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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2009, 03:46:15 PM »

And dedicated console JRPG players likely wouldn't give it a chance because it was gaijin-American.

You know, while that can't be discounted as a reason I think a lot of the people playing on consoles simply didn't care to follow up on PC gaming to even know about it, or if they did they may not have had a PC capable of running it. It's a large part of the reason why PC-exclusive games just aren't seen as viable anymore unless they're developed on a low budget or are like Blizzard's and are developed to run great even on somewhat out of date computers, people frequently go to consoles because they don't have to worry about that kind of nonsense. I remember getting Anachronox when I saw it for cheap at Costco, and wasn't really satisfied with how it ran on the computer I was using then.
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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2009, 04:47:27 PM »

Fair enough, Eus. 

Re: Shantae- man, that game was so freaking good.  Underrated? No (critics and players adored it), but totally under the radar. 
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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2009, 05:56:00 PM »

And am I the only one who is bothered by the fact that so many people feel the need to add statements like "Don't get me wrong, Chrono Trigger is the greatest game ever made" when talking about Chrono Cross?  It feels like they're just tacking it on because they "have to".  CT sucked, and it's alright to just say it!

No, no it's not, because it didn't. Subjectively you may not have liked it, but then you like Baroque, a game most people feel is dated and boring. To each their own in terms of taste I suppose. However, Chrono Trigger is an example of excellent game design, beloved by millions, and made by some very talented people working on all cylinders.

Thanks for reminding me, Baroque needs to be in here because it's fantastic and one of the best Roguelikes ever constructed but people don't like it because they don't like Roguelikes.

Also, I have to agree with Secret of Evermore.  I liked that game a lot MORE then Mana; Mana had a lot of goofy shit going on sinc eyou could do things out-of-order and there were a lot of bugs and sloppy mechanics that were somewhat cleared up in SoE.

And Tomba's one of those games that just got ignored.  The people who have played it love it.  I wish I was one of them :(
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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2009, 07:23:12 PM »

Recently, Crimson Gem Saga, more people should play this.
 
 Also Jade Cocoon 2, God Hand, and Zone of the Enders: Fist of Mars.
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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2009, 07:57:02 PM »

It's kinda funny that the reasons I gave Crimson Gem Saga a good score are pretty much the very reasons Gamespot gave it a crappy score.  Spinel rocks my free living world!

EDIT: I'll +1 Okage.  The writing and humor were excellent in that game.  If I had any issue with it, it's that I thought some of the dungeon design was a bit uninspired, especially in contrast to the inspired writing.  But still a fun little RPG.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 08:28:31 PM by Dincrest » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2009, 08:22:10 PM »

OKAGE THE SHADOW KING FOR PS2!!!!
EDIT: oh yeah and jade coccon 2!, 1 was good too
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 09:30:33 PM by WildArms » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2009, 08:34:36 PM »

Maybe I'll give Okage another shot sometime, but the only reason I made as much progress as I did was because I had literally nothing else to do at the time. Maybe I'll appreciate it more now, or be even more bored since the shiny new PS2 game novelty will be long long dead.

You know, I'm thinking King's Field may count. For the flaws the PS2 version has it's still a compelling, unique game.
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« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2009, 09:44:37 PM »

I'd go with Tomba!

I APPROVE! Tomba! (Tombi! over here) is brilliant.
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« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2009, 11:20:31 PM »

Quote
Chrono Trigger is an example of excellent game design

No, it's not. The balance is wrong, both in the sense of the game being far too easy and in the sense of combo attack costs not really being matched to combo effectiveness (and combo effectiveness v. individual attack effectiveness being sort of flakey), and like most of Square's SNES games there's no gameplay outside of the battle system, except in this case it's even lacking character player-controlled character advancement.

Also, one of the major features -- that is, non-random battles -- sort of falls apart near the end of the game when they either get really hard to avoid or you hit "enemies just jump out of nowhere" points.

It doesn't require grind, and it marks a shift away from really stupid, large, empty mazelike dungeons towards dungeons that work more like semi-cinematic setpieces, which has sort of been the standard for RPGs since.

It's fun and it's non-offensive and it's probably better than Square's other 16-bit traditional RPGs, but I'd really be hard pressed saying it's actually an example of *good* game design, given that the mechanics are so slight and poorly balanced.
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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2009, 06:10:10 AM »

Quote
Chrono Trigger is an example of excellent game design

No, it's not. The balance is wrong, both in the sense of the game being far too easy and in the sense of combo attack costs not really being matched to combo effectiveness (and combo effectiveness v. individual attack effectiveness being sort of flakey), and like most of Square's SNES games there's no gameplay outside of the battle system, except in this case it's even lacking character player-controlled character advancement.

Also, one of the major features -- that is, non-random battles -- sort of falls apart near the end of the game when they either get really hard to avoid or you hit "enemies just jump out of nowhere" points.

It doesn't require grind, and it marks a shift away from really stupid, large, empty mazelike dungeons towards dungeons that work more like semi-cinematic setpieces, which has sort of been the standard for RPGs since.

It's fun and it's non-offensive and it's probably better than Square's other 16-bit traditional RPGs, but I'd really be hard pressed saying it's actually an example of *good* game design, given that the mechanics are so slight and poorly balanced.

How did you survive playing video games before 2000?

Granted none of the games from yesteryear are perfect, but you've got to admit that CT really predicted the way JRPGs were going to evolve before anybody else even thought of trying them. It took a full generation just to get to the point where JRPGs finally started to implement CT's ideas (and those efforts were crude at best). I'd say, of the contemporaries of the time, Phantasy Star 4 was probably the closest thing we saw to CT (and even then it still had a long ways to go).

I have to ask. Do you base a game's value solely on balance alone?
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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2009, 02:08:20 PM »

Quote
Chrono Trigger is an example of excellent game design

No, it's not. The balance is wrong, both in the sense of the game being far too easy and in the sense of combo attack costs not really being matched to combo effectiveness (and combo effectiveness v. individual attack effectiveness being sort of flakey), and like most of Square's SNES games there's no gameplay outside of the battle system, except in this case it's even lacking character player-controlled character advancement.

Also, one of the major features -- that is, non-random battles -- sort of falls apart near the end of the game when they either get really hard to avoid or you hit "enemies just jump out of nowhere" points.

It doesn't require grind, and it marks a shift away from really stupid, large, empty mazelike dungeons towards dungeons that work more like semi-cinematic setpieces, which has sort of been the standard for RPGs since.

It's fun and it's non-offensive and it's probably better than Square's other 16-bit traditional RPGs, but I'd really be hard pressed saying it's actually an example of *good* game design, given that the mechanics are so slight and poorly balanced.

Not a thing you said tells me anything bad about its game design. Perhaps you like needlessly hard fights (artificial difficulty), or unnecessarily complex puzzles slowing down the game's flow. See, if CT was designed to be a game with puzzles like Zelda, I'd be behind you. If it were designed to be over the top on its end-game like Star Ocean 2, I'd be behind you.

It was designed to be none of these things. RPGs up until Chrono Trigger were largely bogged down by slow pacing and artificial difficulty levels. CT eliminated a lot of that. It's not perfect in execution by any stretch, but it does reflect much of what good game design is about. Easy to navigate menus, excellent music, excellent visuals, good dialogue, generally good plot flow, optional enhancements to the plot after the midpoint, and while it was easy, it wasn't dumb like Mystic Quest. There is a distinct difference.

As to the payoff between individual or team-up attacks: I don't know where you're getting that. While some individual attacks were very powerful vs. specific enemies (usually based around elemental type), the great mass of double and triple techs were amazingly useful. Some petered out towards the end with Lavos, but it wasn't anything game breaking.

Also, outside of the sidequest for Robo in 1999 in one of the domes and the staircases in the Black Omen, I don't recall any "jump out of nowhere" battles. There are scripted battles and all that, but it's generally easy enough to figure your way around most enemies.
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Lazlowe1984
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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2009, 02:45:15 PM »

Mirrors Edge,Deus Ex,Fallout 2,Alpha Centauri and Okami get my vote on underrated games.
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Eusis
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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2009, 02:57:41 PM »

Mirror's Edge aside, all of those games are lacking in neither fan adoration or critical praise. MAYBE they undersold, or your angle is that they needed even more perfect reviews, but otherwise those really just don't qualify.

Edit: Yeah, looking up more Deus Ex at the least has no business being called underrated. Selling a million copies, a 90 on Metacritic, and constantly hailed as one of the greatest games of all time? That doesn't seem very underrated!
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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2009, 03:04:27 PM »

Energy Breaker must always be mentioned. =P
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« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2009, 03:06:24 PM »

Mirror's Edge aside, all of those games are lacking in neither fan adoration or critical praise. MAYBE they undersold, or your angle is that they needed even more perfect reviews, but otherwise those really just don't qualify.

Edit: Yeah, looking up more Deus Ex at the least has no business being called "Underrated". Selling a million copies, a 90 on Metacritic, and constantly hailed as one of the greatest games of all time? That doesn't seem very "underrated"!

I would argue that Alpha Centauri is something most gamers today haven't heard of. It's an obscurer title, if not underrated.
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