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Subject: Persona 3: FES
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Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: Did Final Fantasy really save Square?  (Read 6706 times)
Tristam
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« on: June 21, 2006, 07:57:56 PM »

That seems to be the legend behind the making of Final Fantasy, but I wonder how much of this is BS. Previously Square had released Tobidase Daisakusen (known in the US as 3-D WorldRunner) which, according to Sakaguchi, sold about 500,000 copies (I don't know if this is worldwide or just in Japan, but either way it ain't a bad number). Of course, Acclaim would've received some of the profits for publishing it in the US. Then they released Highway Star, which sold 410,000 copies in Japan, 1,150,000 copies in the US, and 400,000 copies in Europe for a total of 1.96 million copies sold. Of course, Nintendo published it in the US as Rad Racer, so they would've sucked up some of the profit, and Mattel distributed it in Europe.

Then we have Final Fantasy, which sold 520,000 copies in Japan, and only 260,000 copies here in the US. So how did these sales "breathe life into a dying company" (a frequently used quote) when Rad Racer failed to do so? And between 3-D WorldRunner and Rad Racer, I can't see Square as a "dying company." It's possible that Rad Racer was just one of those games that sold over a gradual period of time whereas Final Fantasy was an instant hit, but that's all guesswork.

What do you guys say?
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beans
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2006, 08:56:33 PM »

3d Worldrunner generated no sequel, and Rad Racer's sequel received a lukewarm reception at best.  (though I loved it)

I'm pretty sure the reason Final Fantasy "saved" Square is if it had bombed, at the time it was doubtful they would have recovered financially.  Games like King's Knight and JJ weren't exactly ripping up the sales figures generating new revenue.  FF was received pretty well, "only 260,000" copies in the US... in 1990... was damn good especially considering how rpg's were generally met here.

I remember Nintendo Power did a very nice job of making me want Final Fantasy.
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Dade
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2006, 09:12:21 PM »

Final Fantasy the game didnt save Square.

Square was saved by Final Fantasy VII. You can Poopoo that until the cows come home, but frankly....no one followed Square half as much as they did Post FFVII.

Edit: Now if we're talking the SERIES....which I dont think we are because of the NES factor in your post...yes it did with a BUT.

Yes, Final Fantasy the series saved Square, BUT what's in a name? If each squaresoft game that was released under the name Final Fantasy was released under TOTALLY different titles....Squaresoft would still be the powerhouse it is today. The new installments they release might not have received as much face-time, but they'd still be huge sellers. Names dont sell games, they just get games noticed.
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James8BitStar
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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2006, 05:26:36 AM »

To Dade:

You misinterpreted the entire question and furthermore demonstrate an ignorance of RPG Lore.

The idea that FF1 saved Square comes from a well-known legend that, in the late eighties, the company was on the verge of bankruptcy and, on a whim, decided to make an RPG that turned out to be surprisingly successful.  That's what the original poster was asking--whether this legend was true or BS.

Frankly, your idea that Square was basically ignored until FF7 came along is laughable.  FF7 saved Square?  So what kept them alive for the entire decade's worth of time before the Playstation came along?  How the heck could they have been able to make the previous six FFs (not to mention hundreds of other RPGs, with the occasional strategy game and platformer along the way) across three consoles (NES, SNES, Gameboy) if FF7 was the game that "Saved" them?  Oh yea sure, it may be true that FF7 was the game that made them a big name IN AMERICA, but A) they were already a huge presence in Japan and B) even in America, they already had a decent fanbase.   That's why Capcom had Square publish the US release of the first Breath of Fire:  Square was well-known among RPG fans, even in the Super Nintendo days.

*Sigh*

To Beans:

3D Worldrunner DID have a sequel, though it came after the release of FF1 and was for the Super Famicom.

To Tristram:

Personally I would have to go with the idea that the other games were more "Gradual" successes while FF1 just flew off the shelves.  It's a very probable scenario, especially in Japan during the late 1980s/early 1990s where the success of Dragon Warrior would've prompted a boom in the popularity of RPGs.  In short, FF1 could've been a case of "right place at the right time."
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Eusis
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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2006, 05:37:27 AM »

As... geeky as 'RPG lore' sounds, I have to agree with you, though FFVII was also, IIRC, their single most successful game to that time in Japan. I just don't think it saved them anywhere but here, since they had an assload coming down the pipeline in Japan, and even then that may apply more to the console RPG scene on a whole. That, and I simply never heard that said about the /company/ and not just the US market.

I really wouldn't know, but if Square was poorly run then, or was having declining success with each new title, I could see FF having been the game that finally made them significantly popular and a good bit of cash.
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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2006, 06:48:04 AM »

final fantasy paved the way for squares future, final fantasy VII made them known throught the world as the undisputed kings of RPG. and yes i know many will argue with this but lets face it when talking to a group of geeks and bringing up RPGs square is usualy the first company to come to mind.
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Dade
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2006, 12:09:05 PM »

Thank's for the history lesson, Jimbo.....but please....dont speak to me like a fucking asshole.
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Tristam
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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2006, 12:50:42 PM »

Nice reply, James, I'm glad to see that somebody else knows of JJ. :P

Anyways, I was able to find the pricings for the games mentioned. In Japan, Tobidase Daisakusen was 3,400 Yen, Highway Star was 4,800 Yen, and Final Fantasy was 5,900 Yen. So while FF was the most expensive game, and the best-selling of those three *in Japan*, I just can't see how that would still compare to the worldwide sales of Rad Racer. For the record, I'm completely re-writing the Wikipedia article for Square, and this is a pretty big part of Square's history, because many regard FF as the turning point. I think it was a turning point, in a sense, because it gave Square a niche (RPGs) and a name that a.) established them, and b.) that gamers recognized (Final Fantasy - a series they could always rely on). Final Fantasy being the game that "would make or break the company," is a nice story (esp. since it's something we all know and love), but until I see some good, hard evidence, that's all I'll regard it as.
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James8BitStar
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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2006, 07:23:04 AM »

Yea, sorry I snapped Dade.  I was having a very bad day when I posted that, and unfortunately your post also triggered one of my pet peeves--I can't stand it when people make claims that openly defy logic.

So, once again, sorry.
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Dade
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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2006, 05:37:28 PM »

Thanks for getting the sand out of your vagina about your dear dear Squaresoft. I'm so sorry my logic defying post irked you so much as to make your day WORSE.

Coffee Mug. Urine.

Foot. Balls.

And now for something completely unnecessary:

http://www.consumptionjunction.com/content/detail.asp?ID=52447

Edit: Oh sorry....I jsut got off work and had a really bad day....so sorry about that angst ridden post.
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Rico
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2006, 06:46:58 PM »

"I said something that betrayed my ignorance of something that's relatively common knowledge among RPG players.  When someone bitches at me for it, I will then sling insults their way and try to justify even more insults when they apologize for their tone.  DON'T TALK TO ME LIKE A FUCKING ASSHOLE."
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Jimmy
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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2006, 09:28:07 PM »

Quote from: "Dade"
Thank's for the history lesson, Jimbo.....but please....dont speak to me like a fucking asshole.


B-but...it wasn't me!

Did Final Fantasy save Square? I couldn't tell you for sure but it seems to me the Final Fantasy series was started in order to capitalize on the success of the first Dragon Quest game. The first games in both series are highly similar though I suppose you could argue this is simply because of technology limitations. But Final Fantasy II was a decent departure in the fact that it actually had a decent story and fleshed out characters and wasn't just a massive power level fest.

Yes, I think the first Final Fantasy was a Dragon Quest imitator, but the series moved in its own direction afterward. Of course this is all a moot point anyway due to the merger a few years ago.
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Marshmallow
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2006, 11:10:40 PM »

Oh God dammit, Dade.

*Note to self, stop clicking on his fucking links*

Sad thing being that it doesn't even affect me anymore.
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Eusis
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2006, 11:21:18 PM »

Quote from: "Marshmallow"
Oh God dammit, Dade.

*Note to self, stop clicking on his fucking links*

Sad thing being that it doesn't even affect me anymore.

You know... I didn't take much time to look, but I agree anyway.

Holy crap Dade, we're never going to forget this random act of unwarranted bastardness. Hahaha. :P
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Cauton
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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2006, 11:32:54 PM »

Ah, exactly what I needed to see while eating my breakfast. Top class!
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