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Author Topic: Bioware founder says JRPGs "lack evolution"  (Read 32977 times)
ULTROS!
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« Reply #135 on: December 29, 2009, 01:19:05 PM »

Uncharted 2 didn't reinvent the adventure genre (well... maybe except in terms of console graphics) but it was very well executed and was loved by many (including me!)
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #136 on: December 29, 2009, 01:42:49 PM »

Ambition is the enemy of getting a product released.
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #137 on: December 29, 2009, 02:31:15 PM »

Ambition is the enemy of getting a product released.

...

. . .
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Eusis
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« Reply #138 on: December 29, 2009, 03:46:38 PM »

Ambition is the enemy of getting a product released.

...

. . .

It IS something you have to be careful with, otherwise you get games like Daikatana and Battlecruiser 3000AD.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #139 on: December 29, 2009, 04:10:37 PM »

Or the countless dos RPGs that sound impressive on paper but aren't really playable.

Alternatively, ambition tempered by restraint and ambition tempered by commitment can lead to some really great games, although the latter tends to result in millions of patches after release or games not getting released *on time*.

The other problem with ambition in terms of game development, though, is that there still seems to be a a little too much emphasis on the on-paper stuff.

Eusis, I'll use your reaction to Scribblenauts as an example here.

A very ambitious game that actually made good on its ambitions... except they completely fucked the controls up, because that's one of the important technical/implementational things that sort of falls by the wayside in exchange for the ambition.
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« Reply #140 on: December 29, 2009, 04:24:10 PM »

A very ambitious game that actually made good on its ambitions... except they completely fucked the controls up, because that's one of the important technical/implementational things that sort of falls by the wayside in exchange for the ambition.

No, thats one of the things that falls by the wayside from incompetence.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #141 on: December 29, 2009, 04:37:17 PM »

See, I don't think Fallout 3, Mass Effect, or DA:O really innovated anything. Practically everything we've mentioned here was something innovated somewhere else and built off of. Maybe they focused on it more, maybe they made one aspect more "sophisticated", but all three games were fairly straightforward. Dialog Trees have been around since the dawn of time, on both sides of the pond. Whether or not you choose intent or the actual dialog is moot. Actually, I think ME did a fairly shoddy job in parts, there were many times when I thought that the "intent" that I chose was one thing, but it came out completely differently. Like, I chose something that sounded passive, and then when he said it, it would be a hostile comment. That really pissed me off. Anyways. I don't think ME or DA:O were particularly innovative. Fallout 3 had a bit more stylistic innovation, but I gather that most of that was actually started by the earlier games.

Currently, everyone seems to be on the lines of: dialog trees = good, or somehow thinking that dialog trees are more sophisticated or innovative. They aren't. They aren't any more than real-time combat is over turn-based, or any of the other things whiny modern RPGamers like to spew out. Dialog Trees are one choice the developers made, one that leans the game over toward player control rather than creator control. Some think this is good, some (like me) often think that this can be to a title's disadvantage.

And no, I'm not saying that DA:O was supposed to be the most innovative game ever made, however, when the company CEO turns right around, and badmouths other games for not being innovative, that just doesn't look very good. And ME really wasn't as innovative as everyone's giving them credit for. It was generic(albight well-done) Sci-Fi, with dialog trees and action rpg gameplay. He really shouldn't be talking.
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« Reply #142 on: December 29, 2009, 05:17:47 PM »

Quote
No, thats one of the things that falls by the wayside from incompetence.

In the gamedev sphere, the most ambitious people are often the least competent.
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« Reply #143 on: December 29, 2009, 05:31:10 PM »

Ambition is the enemy of getting a product released.

Or, as Steve Jobs said in three simple words, "Real artists ship."

couldn't you say that TWEWY, the recent Persona games and Steambot Chronicles *are* trying something new, in their own way? Or is that just me?

QFT. Hell, Steambot Chronicles did the whole "picking what you mean to say instead of the literal sentence" thing before ME.
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Parn
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« Reply #144 on: December 29, 2009, 07:05:03 PM »

This thread reeks of Clorox and poop.
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Danakir
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« Reply #145 on: December 29, 2009, 10:00:44 PM »

QFT. Hell, Steambot Chronicles did the whole "picking what you mean to say instead of the literal sentence" thing before ME.

Steambot Chronicles is a game I have immense respect for and yet I couldn't finish it, the strangely quiet and relaxing pace just got to me.

Yet somehow, I feel the experience was still worth every penny.

If that's not innovation, then I don't know what it is.

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This thread reeks of Clorox and poop.

Your contribution of witty repartee to this thread is dully noted.
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« Reply #146 on: December 29, 2009, 10:11:37 PM »

Your contribution of witty repartee to this thread is dully noted.

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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #147 on: December 30, 2009, 12:30:22 AM »

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No, thats one of the things that falls by the wayside from incompetence.

Given that 5th Cell's other two games have had perfectly fine controls, I think Scribblenauts' issue had more to do with them focusing too much on the idea of having lots of items in the game then incompetence.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #148 on: December 31, 2009, 09:29:19 AM »

You know what else was an ambitious task?

Duke Nukem Forever This.
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« Reply #149 on: December 31, 2009, 10:30:47 AM »

Was DNF really that ambitious?  I remember reading out it way back when it was using the Quake II engine and it sounded fun and all but it didn't sound all that different from similar games on the market.  I think the project suffered more from lack of direction than ambition.

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