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Author Topic: FFXIV Thread  (Read 113778 times)
Parn
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« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2010, 03:00:32 PM »

Considering it's not out, no way to know.  Mixed feedback with the alpha testing so far.  The combat at the moment is statuesque in the style of old MMOs, where you have characters standing in place looking bored until the next attack interval.  As things currently stand, I'm way more interested in The Old Republic than I am FFXIV.  It has no auto attack like XIV, yet it manages to look very busy due to characters actually deflecting attacks from multiple directions and so forth.  Both are in an alpha state, yet The Old Republic looks closer to a finished product than XIV, yet XIV is due out this year while The Old Republic is coming next year.

Keeping an eye out nonetheless.  I'm not nearly as excited as I was before for XIV.
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Tenchi-no-Ryu
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« Reply #76 on: May 23, 2010, 03:57:34 AM »

Tanaka did state in a letter to the testers that they are aware of the slow pacing of combat and they will be revising the combat system, so there is still hope. From what Ive played of the alpha so far, FFXI veterans will feel eerily at home, while new players will be struggling to make heads or tails of the game. Even though the game is in alpha it's alot more complete than people might think. The engine is done, they still have to do optimizations for PC hardware (the game bogs down when there are too many people in visual range), and the major systems are complete (crafting, guildleves, etc.) it's just mainly refinement. They are mostly working on server stability. They have stopped taking feedback from the testers until they can resolve the latency issues but they are taking them to heart.

 Most of my quibbles are with the slow pacing of combat (having to watch an ATB bar for every attack) as well as having too many button presses before you can even begin combat. Right now you have to press a button to pull out your weapon, press a button to lock onto the target, press a button to bring up your action menu, select the attack you'd like to use, watch the ATB button fill, then press another button to activate the attack. You gain gobs of TP per attack, which you use to activate your other abilities, kind of like Rage for a Warrior in WoW. The kicker is that there's an ATB bar for your specials too, so the experience right now is a snorefest.

NPC dialogue is still in the fucking chat window, and while you have a battle and chat window, currently no chat filters are in place and no ability to spawn a new customizable window. The quest log is no improvement over the quest log in XI, except it lists the info in narrative form, updating the entries ala Oblivion as you talk to the right NPCs. Some quests are obvious (kill X number of mobs) while some are typically vague in the vein of XI (someone in Y location wants to buy your object) so you have to NPC fish for the right person. Mission givers aren't marked either.

Anyway, alot of these problems can easily be resolved with a little work, but seeing these same design flaws that plagued XI show up in a next gen MMO is pretty sad.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 09:40:07 AM by Tenchi-no-Ryu » Logged
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« Reply #77 on: May 23, 2010, 11:51:06 PM »

You post makes me depressed, Stephen...;_;
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Tenchi-no-Ryu
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« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2010, 10:11:17 AM »

Makes me sad to write it. It's obvious the game was designed (again) around a console platform, and alot of the optimizations you'd get for designing around a PC platform (breadth of keybindings) were completely overlooked.

Now don't get me wrong. The game right now isn't a complete wash. The localization is excellent, the graphics are drop dead gorgeous, and the world design is epic. I'm just disheartened that they didn't seem to bother trying anything new or out of the box from XI. It feels like a moderate evolution instead of a revolution. Now I doubt they can redo the combat system but they can still streamline it and speed up the pace.
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Parn
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« Reply #79 on: May 24, 2010, 11:03:20 PM »

Honest feedback is what is needed though.  I'm annoyed by the Square Enix sycophants in the FFXIV community who get irate over any commentary that isn't the textual equivalent of performing fellatio.
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« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2010, 04:53:14 AM »

Makes me sad to write it. It's obvious the game was designed (again) around a console platform, and alot of the optimizations you'd get for designing around a PC platform (breadth of keybindings) were completely overlooked.

Now don't get me wrong. The game right now isn't a complete wash. The localization is excellent, the graphics are drop dead gorgeous, and the world design is epic. I'm just disheartened that they didn't seem to bother trying anything new or out of the box from XI. It feels like a moderate evolution instead of a revolution. Now I doubt they can redo the combat system but they can still streamline it and speed up the pace.

Unfortunately RPGs live, breathe, and die on their gameplay and controls. Aesthetics are less important to the overall success of the game, especially with the harcore spoiled current or former WoW players who expect the same level of polish from any MMO.
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Tenchi-no-Ryu
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« Reply #81 on: May 25, 2010, 09:06:43 AM »

Your both right, and to be honest - if they don't do something drastic to make the gameplay more exciting, the game is going to wither on the vine. I think its kind of sad that Square Enix is banking on nostalgia for XI for FFXIV's success. With how long the game has been in development and the examples of gameplay out there (WoW, Aion, AoC and now TERA) that they would try to be more outgoing. I mean, if you think how much they throw caution to the wind with the last 2 FF's that they would be more bold with XIV. Also, after seeing how intensely dramatic combat can be in XIII, there's no reason they can't keep that level of excitement in XIV. MMO's have evolved past the stilted gameplay of 7 years ago. Of course alot of this is somewhat speculative since gameplay is pretty limited in the alpha, but I think its indicative enough to show how things will pan out later on.
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« Reply #82 on: May 25, 2010, 02:54:51 PM »

Most of my quibbles are with the slow pacing of combat (having to watch an ATB bar for every attack) as well as having too many button presses before you can even begin combat. Right now you have to press a button to pull out your weapon, press a button to lock onto the target, press a button to bring up your action menu, select the attack you'd like to use, watch the ATB button fill, then press another button to activate the attack. You gain gobs of TP per attack, which you use to activate your other abilities, kind of like Rage for a Warrior in WoW. The kicker is that there's an ATB bar for your specials too, so the experience right now is a snorefest.

So, if they remove the 4 button press to get into combat (they make it a 1 button where you pull out your weapon, lock on the target you have currently selected and bring up the action menu while the animation for weapon draw is going and the ATB bar is already half full with a 1.5 second fill time) this would be pretty much WoW time. I can see the ATB being pretty cool with you have multiple "categories" of ATB. So its like having separate Global Cooldowns for varying types of attacks...that would be pretty fun and involving.

So, this may just be the foundation in alpha to verify the mechanics of a more exciting combat system is in place before they have multiple actions and ATBs going on all at once.

There is still hope for this. And lets be honest. Even if there wasn't...we'd still buy it day one and play it for a week or two.
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Tenchi-no-Ryu
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« Reply #83 on: May 25, 2010, 04:18:01 PM »

The ATB bar doesn't start filling till you actually select the attack, there's no auto-attack, and you can't have different skills charging in tandem.  I tried Lancer and the ATB for the manual attack was about 3.5-4 seconds. I'll play with it some more this week and try a 1H class and see if its any better. Though I have to say i'm finding that i'm looking forward to TERA more than FFXIV at this time.
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« Reply #84 on: May 25, 2010, 05:19:32 PM »

There is still hope for this. And lets be honest. Even if there wasn't...we'd still buy it day one and play it for a week or two.

I really hope they'll change it, the more and more I see it, the more and more unimpressed I am.  If the game continues to deliver disappointment in beta, I'm gonna pass. :(
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« Reply #85 on: May 25, 2010, 06:54:42 PM »

The ATB bar doesn't start filling till you actually select the attack, there's no auto-attack, and you can't have different skills charging in tandem.  I tried Lancer and the ATB for the manual attack was about 3.5-4 seconds. I'll play with it some more this week and try a 1H class and see if its any better. Though I have to say i'm finding that i'm looking forward to TERA more than FFXIV at this time.


to be honest much of why i liked ffxi had little to do with the gameplay and everything to do with the atmosphere. i'm curious what thats like in FFXIV.
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« Reply #86 on: May 25, 2010, 10:17:55 PM »

There is still hope for this. And lets be honest. Even if there wasn't...we'd still buy it day one and play it for a week or two.

This is exactly what you said about Warhammer Online, if memory serves. :P
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« Reply #87 on: May 26, 2010, 01:34:54 AM »

DR...that's what I say about all MMORPGs :P

I give all of them a try.

On the TERA note, I have a feeling its going to be like Aion. Beautiful to look at, a snore to play. Keep me posted, Stephen!
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Tenchi-no-Ryu
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« Reply #88 on: May 26, 2010, 06:54:55 AM »

DR...that's what I say about all MMORPGs :P

I give all of them a try.

On the TERA note, I have a feeling its going to be like Aion. Beautiful to look at, a snore to play. Keep me posted, Stephen!
Pft, you didn't even make it to level 20 or out of the SECOND zone, so you have no right to comment on the gameplay ;p
You always were the consummate MMO buffet sampler Tim. *sigh*


Anyway, I spent some more time with the alpha and found that things were not quite as bad as my first impression because of some limitations with the client (i.e. my stupidity with the keyboard). Firstly, the game doesn't notify you when you gain new abilities, nor does it really let you know when you level up (its there in chat, but the chatspam without filters makes it impossible to keep track of). Also, I finally got the controller configured correctly instead of struggling with the keyboard.

Here's what I found...

1. ATB charge time is based on weapon, with larger weapons are slower of course. First play was as a Lancer, second was as Gladiator (much faster)

2. You have to manually equip your attacks and abilities to your action bar. I was playing with one 2H attack previously, which sucked. When you have more its MUCH better.

3. Equipping attacks to the action bar is similar to choosing spells for BLU (sans the cooldown timer), you have a pool of battle points, with each attack/ability having a certain cost to equip, so you have to make something like a combat deck.

4. The ATB charges continuously whether you're in combat or not, as long as your weapon is pulled. Sheathing it (going into passive mode) resets it.

5. The ATB charges for ALL equipped attacks/abilities. This means one bar for everything and you can flip through all the abilities while its charging, it will only consume the bar when you hit accept to use the currently selected action.

6. TP will slowly drain over time when you are not in combat. There isn't an xp chain system, but fighting mobs in rapid succession means less TP decay and faster subsequent kills.

7. Dying does not accrue any kind of penalty to XP. It decreases HP, MP temporarily (~5 minutes) and doubles the ATB charge time, so you're not completely helpless and can still fight, just at a diminished capacity.

8. Sheathing your weapon (going from Active to Passive mode) refills your HP while standing still. It occurs in pulses (~5 seconds) and restores more the longer you stand still. MP cannot  be restored in the field unless through class specific actions or touching an Aetherite.

9. The process of entering combat only requires 3 buttons: Active/Passive toggle, Lock-on toggle (optional), Confirm button.  You use the digital direction pad to select specific attacks/abilities on your action bar.

If you are close to a mob...

A. Press Active mode button (one press) to pull weapon
B. Press Confirm button to target the mob. The auto targeting is like XI, use the D-pad to tab through targets or the mouse to manually select.
C. Press Lock-on Button to fix yourself to the target, allows you to rotate around the mob. (optional step)
D. Press Confirm Button again to bring up the Action Menu.
E. Press Confirm button again to start ATB gauge. You don't have to have any specific attack selected in order to do this BUT, you do have to have the attack you want to use selected when the gauge is filled.
F. Press Confirm button again to confirm attack when gauge is full to use currently selected ability.
G. Use the D-Pad to change abilities/attacks, and press Confirm button again when ATB charges to full, wash and repeat.

So you use pretty much use the Confirm button for most of the combat input. Since you can store the ATB gauge before selecting your attack, you can move around to get into the ideal positioning.

10. You get AOE moves fairly early on, and can kill multiple mobs at once with them. However, mobs do have a short leash currently, so trying to train is impossible if there's significant distance between targets.

11. When you kill mobs, you gain Weapon Proficiency (not sure what this does), Weapon XP (Increases Weapon Level - determines when weapon skills are learned and weapons that can be equipped ) and regular XP (increases Physical Level which allows you to allocate attribute points as well as armor that can be equipped).

12. You must be changed to a Disciple of Land class (miner, etc.) to gather materials.

13. Not all starting weapons are available in town at this time. Found level 1 Great Axe (Maurader), level 1 Spatha (Gladiator), level 1 Hammer (Blacksmith). Could not find level 1 Polearm (Lancer) but possible I missed some vendor, as the level 12 Trident was being sold at the bait store.... /facepalm.


That's all I can think of right now. The combat isn't quite as slow paced, and you can actually run around and use certain attacks if you're within range. It's definately an upgrade from XI, but its more strategic rather than twitchy. It's not bad, and if they can speed up the ATB a bit and spruce up some weapon skills (Red Lotus is so dull looking) that would be awesome.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 07:20:08 AM by Tenchi-no-Ryu » Logged
Tenchi-no-Ryu
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« Reply #89 on: May 28, 2010, 10:35:39 AM »

Alpha Test 2 begins soon. I've confirmation that the second round of alpha invites has gone out.
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