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Akanbe-
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« Reply #240 on: August 22, 2010, 02:18:03 PM »

On a side note:  You've mentioned they have much better PR this time compared to 11.  How is their PR coming compared to Bioware or Blizzard, who often discuss the big/important issues on a fairly daily basis?

It's nowhere near as good, but then again they are a Japanese company who have a history of being overly secretive. The cultural difference is pretty significant as Bioware and Blizzard are both North American companies whose primary market is North America. Square Enix is trying to have a global outlook, but they need to take a page from Capcom in that regard. Interestingly enough, they are hiring a community manager for FFXIV for each territory, so we *may* see the door open up a little more. If they actually have an official forum and have one of their bilingual PR people who are very close to the project communicate with the player base regularly, there's no reason they can't reach that level of intimacy with the community. I know for a fact that they have such people within the company, but they aren't directly involved in FFXIV at this time. The landscape of the MMO has changed dramatically since the heyday of FFXI, and it's probably a huge culture shock for them to adapt - but I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt for now. After all, they do have a Twitter account, a Youtube channel, a Facebook page as well as a pretty hyperactive official beta forum - so they have the tools in place, they just need the charisma to use them properly.

On a side note, after spending alot of time reading community reactions as well as my own experiences - I think I finally "get" what they're trying to accomplish with FFXIV, but I dont know if players are really ready and willing to play this way. I think anyone who has played XI will know that there were so many things you could do, but you had to ration your time. If you wanted to XP, you could, if you wanted to play Ballista (I know, don't laugh, but still) you could, there was chocobo raising and raising, if you wanted to hit up Assault, or maybe do some Campaign you could. There was also, Salvage, Dynamis, Fields of Valor, you name it - you had a plethora of activites to choose from. Granted the min-max crowd could care less about half of them, but they were still there. I think what SE is trying to do this time around is to have a structure that encourages (forces) you to  look at the game as a lifestyle.

I mean look at how the game is built - you have the Armory system that allows you to mix and match abilities across a shitload of classes - its basically a glorified version of the Support Job system. However, in XI you had to actually take time off of your main to level your SJ so that you could have access to those sweet abilities. In FFXIV its the same concept - they don't want you to blow to endgame with one class and be missing a massive chunk of your toolset. By having people fatigue in leveling one job, as heavy handed as it seems, it gets people to look at other jobs as well as gets them to craft, which is the center of the economy. Also, the guildleve system is fine as it is. Solo players who don't have much time to play can log in for 1-2 hours and finish their combat leves one day, then log in the next day and do their 8 local leves, then have them reset the next day. Hardcore people, who would be grouping up anyway can share their leves for massive party sessions. If they run out of them, there's behest and later on when they have enough faction credits they can purchase faction leves that they can do solo or as a group.

Alot of it is time management, but in the post-WoW age, people expect the standard to be bum rushing to endgame - and what they want you to do is stop, look at the world and lore they have created and actually enjoy the growing process. It's all about options within time-management, something all MMO players feel insulted when its dictated. Let's not forget the fallout they had with Pandamonium Warden - I think that was also something that influenced alot of the anti-timesink mentality they have with XIV. While they say there's no endgame for retail - what MMO had any endgame at retail? One thing Square Enix is good for is stuffing content into their games, my only concern is that its timely. I enjoy the combat in XIV alot, and the Fatigue system does rub me the wrong way, but I found there's other classes that are actually pretty cool. In fact, you only really need to level up 1-2 other jobs to make the Surplus and Fatigue a non-issue.

Definitely interesting theory (and probably correct as well).  I see how they would rather people get immersed in their world which is absolutely a good thing, but I'm not sure restricting a player's efforts is the best way to go about it.

Just how much does the fatigue system hamper you?  Is the penalty on a day-to-day basis or is it gonna be there as long as you stay on one job kind of thing?
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« Reply #241 on: August 22, 2010, 05:46:41 PM »

I couldn't agree with you more Parn. While I can see what they're trying to do, it will not be met warmly at retail. Glad you finally got into beta. Akanbe, the Fatigue system is being  stealth adjusted  intermittently and nobody has an idea of what the final form will be if any. Currently I have to level one to two times on another job to clear fatigue on my main, but overall xp/sp has been nerfed pretty dramatically and everyone is running around in level 1 weapons so we aren't really able to kill things appropriate to our level. The Surplus XP system starts after several hours of play (it's changed alot so I can't give you a time) but it progressively gets worse as you continue to kill mobs and seems to speed up if you keep killing the same mobs. It can get so bad that it can become 100% of your skill point gain. It does not affect regular xp which determines your physical level, just prevents you from leveling the class.
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Parn
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« Reply #242 on: August 22, 2010, 06:42:24 PM »

BTW, are you planning on having the 'Fan crew play on the Eorzeapedia server on retail?

On another note, I'm loving archer a ton.  Been killing dodos with a trio, and shadowbind has saved me from death more than once seeing how they hit me for just shy of 200 on average per hit.  The only aggravating thing is how quickly you run out of arrows.  You burn through them WAY faster than you do on XI.
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Tenchi-no-Ryu
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« Reply #243 on: August 22, 2010, 10:59:29 PM »

Well, outside of Tonelico - who has to wait for PS3 release, nobody else has really mentioned it. I definately want to play on whatever server is housing the larger English speaking population. I'm sure I can convince some of the old crew to follow suit. Its a little too late for me to join you guys on Ultimicea, since i'm 25/22 on Golbez, but after the wipe we definately need to coordinate for open beta.
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Roger S. Huxley
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« Reply #244 on: August 22, 2010, 11:10:22 PM »

I gotta admit this topic is making me hesitate to get the game at launch. I played a slight bit of FFXI a while ago and I haven't been able to seriously get into any other MMORPGs despite wanting to and I thought FFXIV would fix that, now I just dunno :/

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Tenchi-no-Ryu
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« Reply #245 on: August 23, 2010, 12:36:48 AM »

My advice, wait till open beta because right now everything is in speculation. Sadly we are all too likely to promote doomsday scenarios and fixes like the revamping or removal of the Fatigue system is possible and likely. At the end of the day it's all about money and I doubt SE is in the business of shooting themselves in the foot so close to Cataclysm, TERA and Old Republic release. They know competition is going to be heavy, and I would not be suprised to see a major reworking of mechanics shortly after launch if they loose alot of subscribers after the first month.
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Parn
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« Reply #246 on: August 23, 2010, 07:23:21 AM »

And that's part of the problem... if they wait until subscribers have left after the trial month, it's already too late.  The western MMO market is very cutthroat and rarely gives second chances.
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Tenchi-no-Ryu
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« Reply #247 on: August 23, 2010, 09:02:25 AM »

True but name me any new MMO that has ever had a sterling launch and didn't have bleed off the first month. Even WoW had major issues its first month.
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Parn
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« Reply #248 on: August 23, 2010, 06:26:49 PM »

Sure, but WoW's issues were primarily queues and latency due to an overwhelming surge of players that they did not expect.  Their success was unprecedented after all.  Their problems weren't centered around convoluted systems or a lack of intuitive gameplay.  They made the game fit the player rather than the player fit the game.

Not only that, but because of the bigger budgets MMOs get these days, players are more nitpicky than ever.  Take for example how I've been trying to get interest built up on the game among friends.  They're already turned off due to the fact that the earlier levels have you fighting moles and rats.  I'm kind of annoyed at that myself, and I realize it's part of Square Enix's hard-on for making you feel like a giant pansy when you start off so that as you progress, when you start taking out dragons, the scope of progression is that much more epic.  But my friends aren't buying that.  Their argument is that when say, Star Wars: TOR comes out, they won't be swinging light sabers at tiny forest creatures.

So, I dunno.  *shrug*
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Alisha
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« Reply #249 on: August 23, 2010, 06:42:42 PM »

is there anything resembling weapon skills in this game? that was one of the best parts of ffxi and also the lack of anything weaponskillish is what made it hard for me to get into WoW.
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Parn
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« Reply #250 on: August 23, 2010, 06:51:15 PM »

Yeah, there are.  In fact, check my website.  You may find something special there.
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Alisha
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« Reply #251 on: August 23, 2010, 07:34:14 PM »

thats first video looks like konstant highlands in the dead of knight complete with mad sheep D:

as someone who loved playing monk in ffxi i really liked the video called "FFXIV Beta – More Exploration and Combat"
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 07:38:09 PM by Alisha » Logged


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« Reply #252 on: August 24, 2010, 10:39:13 AM »

Their argument is that when say, Star Wars: TOR comes out, they won't be swinging light sabers at tiny forest creatures.

Fuzzy things to kill, they will. Sorry to hear your friends are closed minded, most of mine are too (the never ending erection for all things WoW). Guess its time to make some new ones. I don't think there's ever been an MMO that didn't start you out as a scrub. I doubt Old Republic will start players out being thrown into Jedi vs Sith fights from the get-go, trailers be damned, but I get your point. For what it's worth i'll be giving the game a thorough shakedown, at least until TERA comes out. If they haven't managed to satisfy my MMO cravings, i'll just move on. I really do hope SE is cognizant of how much of an uphill battle they have to fight. I really would like to see them take a well deserved place in the genre, but only time will tell.
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Sagacious-T
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« Reply #253 on: August 24, 2010, 04:36:09 PM »

* Fatigue goes up to about 50% in 2 hours, and it takes 2 days to go down. So, if you play 4 hours you have to stop playing completely for 2 days.
* Recovery takes time.
* 2 hours of combat or 1 hour of craft will induce "dormancy."
* The dormancy is actually shared over different characters.
* It will decrease gains to 0% in the end.
* It seems to be proportional to the amount of XP you earn.
* Both light and heavy players are affected.


Wait, so the Fatigue system makes you gain LESS xp? An MMO developer forcing their gamers to play LESS? LMAO

But my friends aren't buying that.  Their argument is that when say, Star Wars: TOR comes out, they won't be swinging light sabers at tiny forest creatures.

It will be nice to throw away the "Beat up 20 boards for two copper and 10 meat"

Instead it's "oh shit your new character is on a space ship being attacked and boarded by enemies, go set up defenses and save stuff!"
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 04:38:27 PM by Thoren » Logged
Fei
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« Reply #254 on: August 24, 2010, 04:48:12 PM »

Fatigue is used in Dungeon Fighter also.  Honestly, it sometimes motivates me to play more, since if I only have so much left until I'm done, I might as well finish.

A system like that can help the devs control markets... perhaps higher drop rates since you won't be able to farm that item 24/7.  It all depends on how the whole package comes together, but fatigue isn't automatically bad, though everyone always scoffs at it.

Am I hearing that physical level exp isn't affected by this?  That is still something to grind out for hours, no?
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