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Author Topic: Resonance of Fate Topic  (Read 39535 times)
FlamingR1ft
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« Reply #180 on: May 08, 2010, 11:51:15 PM »

Question for those who are further along than me (the third chapter or so):  does combat ever change? :P  I like this combat system quite a bit, but I could stand a little more variety in attacks.  Is it really only a choice between guns, grenades, and special bullets forever?

I'm a little further than you. A few more chapters ahead, to be specific. Honestly, I'm feeling the same thing. Battles do become a little more varied, but not in terms of the attacks you have. Rather you come up against more status ailments and enemies with different defensive mechanisms.

I've personally found battles are starting to get repetitive. Apart from figuring out the best type of damage to use on an enemy I've recycled the same basic strategy for almost every battle of the game. I am enjoying the game, but I don't think the combat is fun enough to warrant the high level of difficulty.
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« Reply #181 on: May 09, 2010, 12:01:35 AM »

But wouldn't it be safe to say that most any RPG has repetitive combat?  After even 20 hours of Final Fantasy, Persona, or whatever, you've more or less been playing the same battles a zillion times.  Makes me wonder, what is that X factor that makes the same combat feel repetitive in one game but not so in another where you don't mind it?
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FlamingR1ft
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« Reply #182 on: May 09, 2010, 12:10:12 AM »

But wouldn't it be safe to say that most any RPG has repetitive combat?  After even 20 hours of Final Fantasy, Persona, or whatever, you've more or less been playing the same battles a zillion times.  Makes me wonder, what is that X factor that makes the same combat feel repetitive in one game but not so in another where you don't mind it?

That's a really good point actually. Hadn't thought about it.

Let me think... In the examples you gave, "Persona" and "Final Fantasy" I would say it is the new skills you learn or the new party members you get. It gives you more options and allows you to approach similar battles in entirely different ways, if you so desire. Even after you have your full party you're still going to be learning new skills and/or gaining new abilities.

In Resonance of Fate (as far as I've played anyway), you start the game with near your full potential. Sure, you will obtain new weapons and you can upgrade them to make them slightly different. But the strategy remains much the same each battle, you just get stronger.

Each battle I still have Zephyr with a MG and Leanne and Vashyron with HGs. I start off with Zephyr and run him between the other two at an angle taking shots at enemy (possibly with a jump). I then take Vashyron and do the same thing at a different angle to set up a triangle. I then start a Tri-Attack using Leanne and shoot as much as I can. If the battle isn't over then I do it again. The only time this changes is in boss battles, in dungeons where the terrain isn't predominantly flat or if I need suddenly need a hand grenade or some healing.

If this was Persona 3, for example, I'd be constantly having to change tactics in battle to suit whatever my enemy's current weakness is. If I'm really having trouble I might even have to swap my party around or fuse some new Personas with different abilities.

I think the other thing about RoF is that, because it can be so hard, I tend to stick to the same strategy because I know it works. I don't want to keep getting frustrated when I feel ripped off and then throwing my money at retrying.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 12:18:13 AM by FlamingR1ft » Logged

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« Reply #183 on: May 09, 2010, 02:00:56 AM »

I dunno..Im at the part where you have to escort that statue..and im feeling like this is yet another game I have to just shelve because its to damn hard.  I just feel again, like FFXIII, there is to much not in my control, with all the jumping around and other obnoxious action rpg but not action rpg battle system BS.  I dont mind challenge, but for goddsake give us idiots a chance to enjoy the game with an easy button...PLEASE.

I hope Inifinite Space ends up being more like..Persona hard than this crap.  Persona's difficulty, in their various games, feels legit (most of the time, there are some instances like instant death and stuff that are cheap as hell), you have to use the right elemental combinations and stuff, and even though I might lose, I know WHY I lost.  In this game, I sit there like...wtf just happened..and I have to play the battle four more times, doing the exact damn same thing, until it finally works, but it doesnt feel like its because I failed a dice roll, but because the battle system just sucks...I dunno 

Goddamnit this is frustrating the shit out of me, cause im intrigued by the story and setting, but if I cant get past a damn battle, obviously I cannot get to the rest of the game ><
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 02:10:33 AM by Serene Prophet » Logged

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« Reply #184 on: May 09, 2010, 02:12:15 AM »

I dunno..Im at the part where you have to escort that statue..and im feeling like this is yet another game I have to just shelve because its to damn hard.

That's the first battle that gave me real trouble. You can slow the statue's advance by placing Vash in front of it. Vash can tank some damage as well. Then hero action with the other two to kill off the enemies. If you're good with Tri-Attacks, then you can win most of the battles that way.

Quote from: FlamingR1ft
Let me think... In the examples you gave, "Persona" and "Final Fantasy" I would say it is the new skills you learn or the new party members you get. It gives you more options and allows you to approach similar battles in entirely different ways, if you so desire. Even after you have your full party you're still going to be learning new skills and/or gaining new abilities.

Well, they sorta could have done the same thing in RoF. For example, you don't get hero actions until Ch. 1. Then no Smackdowns until Ch. 3, no bonus shots until Ch. 5, and no Tri-Attacks until Ch. 7. You'd then feel like you received new battle skills. Instead, RoF gave it all to you at the beginning.

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FlamingR1ft
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« Reply #185 on: May 09, 2010, 02:50:58 AM »

Well, they sorta could have done the same thing in RoF. For example, you don't get hero actions until Ch. 1. Then no Smackdowns until Ch. 3, no bonus shots until Ch. 5, and no Tri-Attacks until Ch. 7. You'd then feel like you received new battle skills. Instead, RoF gave it all to you at the beginning.

I would have preferred that. Well, not exactly like in your example, but you know what I mean. I don't feel like I'm advancing or getting stronger, I just get more and more frustrated each chapter. I'm past that now, but the statue thing annoyed me too. Way more annoying than fun.

I agree with Serene Prophet too. The battle system just doesn't do it for me any more. I enjoyed the ingenuity when I started playing, but I'm a bit over it now. I liked the Valkyrie Profile 2 version of the system better. I felt like there were more options available in that.

Mind you, there are a lot of things I like about the game too. That's why I'm still playing!
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« Reply #186 on: May 09, 2010, 07:11:55 AM »


Quote from: FlamingR1ft
Let me think... In the examples you gave, "Persona" and "Final Fantasy" I would say it is the new skills you learn or the new party members you get. It gives you more options and allows you to approach similar battles in entirely different ways, if you so desire. Even after you have your full party you're still going to be learning new skills and/or gaining new abilities.

Well, they sorta could have done the same thing in RoF. For example, you don't get hero actions until Ch. 1. Then no Smackdowns until Ch. 3, no bonus shots until Ch. 5, and no Tri-Attacks until Ch. 7. You'd then feel like you received new battle skills. Instead, RoF gave it all to you at the beginning.




Game designers sometimes have trouble getting this right. In FF13 people complained about the lack of options in battle during the first hours of the game. In ROF people seem to be overwhelmed at first and later end up complaining that there's nothing to look forward to because the game gave you everything right from the start.

Comments like the ones on this page are what kept me from buying this game. I was really intrigued by it and initial comments seemed positive though it was clearly one of those cases where people are rooting for the underdog and making the game seem better than it actually is. A shame but hey, it's tri ace.
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FlamingR1ft
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« Reply #187 on: May 09, 2010, 07:28:41 AM »

Game designers sometimes have trouble getting this right. In FF13 people complained about the lack of options in battle during the first hours of the game. In ROF people seem to be overwhelmed at first and later end up complaining that there's nothing to look forward to because the game gave you everything right from the start.

That's it! You've hit the nail on the head! :) You're exactly right! They throw everything at you in the beginning and it's like "Wow! This is sooo complicated, but kinda cool!" Towards the end maybe you realise that whilst it is a unique system, it's actually not all that in-depth. It just gives the illusion of it at the beginning because it's overly complicated.

But good on Tri-Ace for trying something different (well, even if it is similar to VP2). We need more of that in the industry.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 08:10:45 AM by FlamingR1ft » Logged

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« Reply #188 on: May 09, 2010, 07:52:49 AM »

I hope Inifinite Space ends up being more like..Persona hard than this crap.  Persona's difficulty, in their various games, feels legit (most of the time, there are some instances like instant death and stuff that are cheap as hell), you have to use the right elemental combinations and stuff, and even though I might lose, I know WHY I lost.  In this game, I sit there like...wtf just happened..and I have to play the battle four more times, doing the exact damn same thing, until it finally works, but it doesnt feel like its because I failed a dice roll, but because the battle system just sucks...I dunno 


Hate to tell you this, but Infinite Space has massive balance issues.  I can see the game's brilliance, but the ponderously aimless nature and constantly getting my ass kicked in chapter 2 demotivate me.  Given your complaints about RoF, I get the feeling Infinite Space will be another game in your repertoire of, "this game is good and I can see its merits, but it's not *fun* for me."  Not to hijack and talk about Infinite Space since there's already a perfectly good IS thread elsewhere, but it seems like the general issue is that of "good games that the individual isn't having fun with." 

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« Reply #189 on: May 09, 2010, 08:50:34 AM »

Quote
Comments like the ones on this page are what kept me from buying this game. I was really intrigued by it and initial comments seemed positive though it was clearly one of those cases where people are rooting for the underdog and making the game seem better than it actually is. A shame but hey, it's tri ace.

Its bad but not *that* bad.  I think that is the first milestone in the game (the guarding the statue bit) and it is the only time you do it.
I levelled a bit too much for that chapter and remained overlevelled for the next three chapters.  Best of all, grinding is simple.  Not only is an 2xEXP item pretty easy to get; but levelling is based ONLY on equipment you're handling, so the player just needs to switch to the equiptment they're NOT using and you'll gain mad levels in a short amount of time.

There are a lot of ways to describe the battle system.  In-depth, simple, frustrating, fun, punishing, rewarding whatever.  
But If anything, if find that as much as the game makes things difficult for the play, there is an equal number of elements to help to the advantage of the player.  Using a tri-attack is EASY to accumulate five points (or find rounds, where you pretty much play baseball bases around the enemy and shoot em up_, switching characters (heal, heal, heal), hero guage (aka, invincibility), grenade and machine gun cases (elemental damage; fire and poison easily marking themselves the MOST usefull), terminal effects (2x attack charges, 2x item drops, 2x exp, etc.).

Yeah the game is hard; but thats what makes the system fun.  Tri-Ace doesn't seem to like it if a player can just easily grind their way through a game; unlike most RPGs - where the difference of a "few level ups" makes the difference between failure and success.
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« Reply #190 on: May 09, 2010, 10:13:22 AM »

Hey guys, i finally ordered these two hated/loved/whatever games, and i was wondering.... does resonance of fate and FF 13 have the install option? if they do, how much is it for each one of them?
Thanks :D

But wouldn't it be safe to say that most any RPG has repetitive combat?  After even 20 hours of Final Fantasy, Persona, or whatever, you've more or less been playing the same battles a zillion times.  Makes me wonder, what is that X factor that makes the same combat feel repetitive in one game but not so in another where you don't mind it?

Well, in the case of persona 3 it was the shoots, YES! somehow it never tired me to see them shooting themselves, it was pretty cool, even until the last boss i was happy fighting and watching them do it, and of course, the music of the battle was pretty cool, and somehow it never made me feel tired of hearing it :D. In the case of most FF... well FF7 and 8 did tire me, FF9 i loved the style and music and never got tired, in FF10 the visuals, speed of battle and everything was perfect.

Now that i think of it.... music is a pretty important aspect here, sometimes when i hear a battle song in the ipod... i just feel like "ahhhh... again a battle" but in other cases i feel  good remembering all those battles.
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« Reply #191 on: May 09, 2010, 12:02:26 PM »

Hey guys, i finally ordered these two hated/loved/whatever games, and i was wondering.... does resonance of fate and FF 13 have the install option? if they do, how much is it for each one of them?
Thanks :D

Dont know about ROF, but FF13 doesn't have an install option.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 12:29:10 PM by supersonic » Logged
Madoka
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« Reply #192 on: May 09, 2010, 12:12:57 PM »

Hey guys, i finally ordered these two hated/loved/whatever games, and i was wondering.... does resonance of fate and FF 13 have the install option? if they do, how much is it for each one of them?
Thanks :D
RoF does have an install option, and it's 5 GB. It loads fast enough for me to not bother.
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« Reply #193 on: May 09, 2010, 07:35:42 PM »

Well ive just been doing random side crap right now....and its fun..I just dread going back to that mission so im doing arena stuff and grinding for hexes to lay down to find items haha.  I dunno, it still frustrates me, but I still enjoy it.  My main issue is that if I can't get past something, no matter what I do, it just enrages me.  At least the battle system for this is marginally better than FFXIII.  I dunno why but I really hated that games battle system..
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« Reply #194 on: May 09, 2010, 07:58:32 PM »

Well ive just been doing random side crap right now....and its fun..I just dread going back to that mission so im doing arena stuff and grinding for hexes to lay down to find items haha.  I dunno, it still frustrates me, but I still enjoy it.  My main issue is that if I can't get past something, no matter what I do, it just enrages me.  At least the battle system for this is marginally better than FFXIII.  I dunno why but I really hated that games battle system..
Have you been customizing your guns? It's uber important in this game.
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