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Subject: Persona 3: FES
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Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: FINAL FANTASY XIII  (Read 92597 times)
daschrier
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« Reply #465 on: April 22, 2010, 04:09:47 PM »

I don't care for FF6, 7, 8, but love 10, 12, and 13. Guess I'm an anti-FF fan :)

No, you're a person that doesn't care for 6,7 and 8 and loves 10, 12 and 13. That's it. You're actually allowed to do that. You can also enjoy them all, like me. While being honest with yourself and the internet.

It was more of a joke as most people will say that FF fell apart from 10 on.
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Sagacious-T
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« Reply #466 on: April 23, 2010, 02:10:22 AM »

I could understand liking 12/13 more than 6/7/8/10 because of gameplay difference, but man, 10 over 6/7/8? That's pretty weird. Any reason why?
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Ashton
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« Reply #467 on: April 23, 2010, 05:32:07 AM »

The more cinematic feel of 10? I know that's a huge draw of the game and it definitely feels more immersive in that movie-feel kind of way.
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #468 on: April 23, 2010, 06:00:49 AM »

Or we could inquire whether we're treating a game analytically or simply going with what we "like" in a subjective manner. Let's be honest here; most of us aren't particularly good at setting aside bias when it comes to even the smallest hobbies. People will like what they like, without ever thinking about it in a deep or analytical way.

I'm being very elitist, but I just can't get behind FFX as a game. :P Nor XIII, for that matter. I'd say it's just the anti-fanboy in me, but I got over my initial hatred of VIII and found a gem inside -- one which is certainly not for everyone, but needs revisiting all the same. I am less keen to prove a case for IV, which suffers from its age in ways that VI and VII have not. I'd like to get behind IX, being that I enjoy it from a purely subjective point of view, but its actual merits beyond the graphical and some characterisation are few. XII is like that too, sadly, though I will say it's very rich with subtleties that no other entry since VI has been able to match. Fran is not one of these.

My point, however, is that I've never heard a compelling case for FFX. People are quick to dismiss other entries, but FFX always seems to be that sticking point, as if it has some magic. Where, may I ask? Are we sincerely that wowed by graphical achievements that we can't deconstruct the mess beneath? Between the poor characterisation and childish plot devices, I'm left wondering where people get off proclaiming it as some great achievement.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 08:23:56 AM by Hidoshi » Logged
Robert Boyd
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« Reply #469 on: April 23, 2010, 09:48:10 AM »

The reasons I like FFX:

The battle system is fun - turn-based but with speed adjustments and the ability to swap your party members in and out like crazy.

I really like the sphere grid system. Wish we had gotten the International version so I could mess around with the second one.

Among fantasy RPGs, FFX has a truly unique and interesting world and setting.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #470 on: April 23, 2010, 05:24:50 PM »

FFX pwns hardcore because of the laughing scene.  Laughing scene > you.  End of story.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 05:28:36 PM by Dincrest » Logged

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Aeolus
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« Reply #471 on: April 23, 2010, 10:06:08 PM »

Or we could inquire whether we're treating a game analytically or simply going with what we "like" in a subjective manner. Let's be honest here; most of us aren't particularly good at setting aside bias when it comes to even the smallest hobbies. People will like what they like, without ever thinking about it in a deep or analytical way.

I'm being very elitist, but I just can't get behind FFX as a game. :P Nor XIII, for that matter. I'd say it's just the anti-fanboy in me, but I got over my initial hatred of VIII and found a gem inside -- one which is certainly not for everyone, but needs revisiting all the same. I am less keen to prove a case for IV, which suffers from its age in ways that VI and VII have not. I'd like to get behind IX, being that I enjoy it from a purely subjective point of view, but its actual merits beyond the graphical and some characterisation are few. XII is like that too, sadly, though I will say it's very rich with subtleties that no other entry since VI has been able to match. Fran is not one of these.

My point, however, is that I've never heard a compelling case for FFX. People are quick to dismiss other entries, but FFX always seems to be that sticking point, as if it has some magic. Where, may I ask? Are we sincerely that wowed by graphical achievements that we can't deconstruct the mess beneath? Between the poor characterisation and childish plot devices, I'm left wondering where people get off proclaiming it as some great achievement.

The Sphere Grid is very OCD tendency. You can also do stuff to your regular weapons/armor to make some junky piece of trash better than the game's uber weapons/armor. The game is also easier to break than FFVI and is total cake outside of the minigames which suck ass. And Aeons leveled everything (especially if you took advantage of Yuna's Limit Break Overdrive).

That said, I tried getting back into VIII but it was way too slow. IX is likely the same way, but at least I don't have to spend hours pre-breaking the game. Going back to VII allowed me to see just how completely barebones it was. It has a lot of holdovers from the SuperNES era but was also trying completely different stuff that makes it feel like two separate games smushed into one disjointed mess. You'd get things like Midgar and Juon which feel like the promised Cyberpunk setting from the advertisements then things like Cosmo Canyon and Cloud's Town (fuck trying to remember how to misspell that name) where you were hopping from one geological region to the next in a quest for more backstory. After getting the Airship the game then tries to pull an FFs V & VI and gives you the return to old areas for absurd powerups (sans the world smushing/ravaging which made those segments awesome). IV's isn't helped by the fact that it was the antecedent of the very style and structure that has been flogged to death in much lesser games over the last 18 years. If you can go old school enough and accept it for its charms and faults then you can see that its still one of the better examples of that particular style. Otherwise its a fossil and should belong in a museum.
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« Reply #472 on: April 24, 2010, 01:44:47 PM »

FFX is looking more and more like the FFVII for the 00's. It's the game where millions of fanboys yell, "Greatest Game EVAR!" and when you ask them why, they go, "Because it's awesome!". I'm inclined to agree with Hidoshi that I really can't see a huge compelling reason behind FFX. Yes the battle system is very streamlined and it has it's merits, and the sphere grid is cool (actually, once I really thought about it for a while, I feel like it's one of the more boring skill systems in the series). But the characters are a MESS, the plot is pedantic, I found noone sympathetic, and the two leads to be outright disgraceful. The villains are cliche. The only part of the game I found at all compelling was Jekt, Braska, and Auron. When I think on the main characters I have to say, "Waka was fun enough, and I guess so was Auron". The story progression was terrible, you knew what was going to happen from miles away, the pacing was boring and didn't keep you moving forward enough, not like FFVII, VIII, or IX.

Yet, it's "THE GREATEST GAME EVAR!"

Fuck... why?
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« Reply #473 on: April 24, 2010, 01:50:18 PM »

I just had fun with FFX really, and with the exception of Kimahri and the end game pretty much everyone had a unique role to use in combat, unlike most other RPGs with multiple characters like FFXIII everyone but Kimahri had a distinct role to play in combat until the endgame, and even Kimahri would probably be useful enough in the right hands. In fact, FFXIII might be even worse about multiple characters due to how you'd have to reorganize your paradigms, so you'd be going through a lot of micro management just to mess with switching out one character.
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Prime Mover
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« Reply #474 on: April 24, 2010, 06:15:07 PM »

Eusis... we get it, you didn't like FF13.

Personally, I thought it was one of the best when it came to balancing individualized stat development, yet kept the characters separate. For one, they didn't completely gimp some of the characters into being completely non-fighters. I'm all for making characters distinct, but when it gets to the point that a character becomes utterly useless for anything but one roll, then sorry, that's going too far. I noticed that when my girlfriend was playing FFX a while back, she had only moved Yuna about half of the way up the sphere grid from everyone else, because she would go through many battles without her, Yuna was simply a chore. You'd bring her in and use Pray JUST to get the XP. When you're having characters do superfluous attacks just to pimp the skill system, there's a problem.

FF13 didn't do that. Every character had 3 out of 6 rolls (until the post game), and everyone could do some kind of damage. For instance, Vanille may have been primarily a healer, but she could always do pretty good magic damage when everyone was healed. Yet, I never thought of her as a primary fighter.

Look, I've always hated games where characters are so set in their positions that you don't have any leeway with them (4, 9, 10), but also it's kind of boring when every character is virtually the same (6, 7, 8, 12). I think 5 and 13 do the best job balancing these two extremes, however as fun as 5s system is, there are some major drawbacks.

Thirteen may not be my favorite game in the series. 8 had a better world, 9 had better characters, 6 may have had better dialog. But in terms of skill system, I'd say 13 is my favorite, with maybe the exception of 8 (I love junctioning).

****

I just finished the game btw. The ending was kinda WTF. But all in all, I'd say it was a great game, easily my favorite in the series since 9 (not saying much IMO). Best music in the series, though maybe tied with 8. Great characters, good dialog (though yes, some of it was terrible). Too bad the story was so unbelievably strange. But aside from that, I really loved it.

Now, how do I get back to Gran Pulse from after I end the game?
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« Reply #475 on: April 24, 2010, 06:36:56 PM »

Quote
Look, I've always hated games where characters are so set in their positions that you don't have any leeway with them (4, 9, 10)

I actually rather prefer characters having pre-determined roles, of course - to each his own. I just like thinking "Oh no, Hero is low on HP, better use White Mage to perk him right back up" or, "I hear these monsters have rare items, Theif, get your green ass in here!"

I think it justs adds a bit more personality to the characters, call it a cliche, but the soft-spoken couldn't hurt a fly type of people are just natural choices for healers, it would be strange to think of such a fragile individual summoning demons from the pits of hell to destroy everything in a ten mile radius.

In terms of pure gameplay I think it helps the overall experience more if characters have specific roles only for them, it keeps people from exploiting particular skills and abilities and gives the gameplay some back bone.

Though that's just me, it's hardly gospel.
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« Reply #476 on: April 24, 2010, 07:17:49 PM »

Eusis... we get it, you didn't like FF13.

I DID enjoy it though, it's just there's so much wrong with it! And it's something I realized in contrast to FFX, XIII does deserve credit for giving everyone EXP (essentially) regardless of battle status so that you don't have to worry about building up your ignored characters too, not unless you were an idiot and also ignored leveling up their Crystariums so their CP limit hit the cap.
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Sagacious-T
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« Reply #477 on: April 24, 2010, 08:04:00 PM »

Quote
Look, I've always hated games where characters are so set in their positions that you don't have any leeway with them (4, 9, 10)

I actually rather prefer characters having pre-determined roles, of course - to each his own. I just like thinking "Oh no, Hero is low on HP, better use White Mage to perk him right back up" or, "I hear these monsters have rare items, Theif, get your green ass in here!"

I think it justs adds a bit more personality to the characters, call it a cliche, but the soft-spoken couldn't hurt a fly type of people are just natural choices for healers, it would be strange to think of such a fragile individual summoning demons from the pits of hell to destroy everything in a ten mile radius.

In terms of pure gameplay I think it helps the overall experience more if characters have specific roles only for them, it keeps people from exploiting particular skills and abilities and gives the gameplay some back bone.

Though that's just me, it's hardly gospel.

Specific classes/roles per party member adds to their flavor. That doesn't mean that they can't have some flexibility of course. Character progress as well as customization is a big attraction in RPG combat systems. Final Fantasy 13 seemed like it was steering in the direction of having a specific character have specific classes, in turn causing you to choose well who you put in your party, however, that feeling dies a bit toward the mid point of the game.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #478 on: April 25, 2010, 11:40:18 AM »

I'm all for making characters distinct, but when it gets to the point that a character becomes utterly useless for anything but one roll, then sorry, that's going too far.

FF13 didn't do that. Every character had 3 out of 6 rolls (until the post game), and everyone could do some kind of damage.

That's role not roll (or are you talking about the rolling of the dice?)


Quote
Look, I've always hated games where characters are so set in their positions that you don't have any leeway with them (4, 9, 10)

I actually rather prefer characters having pre-determined roles, of course - to each his own. I just like thinking "Oh no, Hero is low on HP, better use White Mage to perk him right back up" or, "I hear these monsters have rare items, Theif, get your green ass in here!"

I think it justs adds a bit more personality to the characters, call it a cliche, but the soft-spoken couldn't hurt a fly type of people are just natural choices for healers, it would be strange to think of such a fragile individual summoning demons from the pits of hell to destroy everything in a ten mile radius.

In terms of pure gameplay I think it helps the overall experience more if characters have specific roles only for them, it keeps people from exploiting particular skills and abilities and gives the gameplay some back bone.

Though that's just me, it's hardly gospel.

And this is one of the big reasons why I loved DQVIII. It compromised between giving each character a fixed role and allowing them to choose their own specialties. Granted the game balance wasn't good enough to make every option viable (some claws for Fisticuffs would've been nice), but for some characters like Jessica who could take the DPS route with the whips skill set or open up some fantastic magical options under her staff skill set (including a second Kazing spell for healling needs), or Hero and his ability to focus on single target offense with spears, crowd control with boomerangs, or magic with courage.

Granted there's room to improve, but its definitely a great start.
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Harlequin
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« Reply #479 on: April 25, 2010, 01:48:34 PM »

Now, how do I get back to Gran Pulse from after I end the game?

Code:
Load up your post-game save and you should be at the last save point in the game.
Behind you is a portal that takes you back to where you started the chapter.
There you should find three portals - one leading to where you just came from, one to Cocoon and one to Gran Pulse.
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