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Author Topic: When will JRPGs stop insulting our intelligence?  (Read 7860 times)
Sagacious-T
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« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2010, 01:05:46 AM »

I happen to like facebook games

I guess the whole storyline thing is a valid complaint.

"Go pick flowers so our village can get attacked while you're away"

Lol , well i never tried a facebook game o.0, but ive always see ppl playing them, and most of them just look like a lame copy of harvest moon.

Yeah, talking in Topic, in my opinion, i really like nice introductions for games, i know lately ppl say "hey we want to play a game, not watch a movie!" but, personally, i like a well introduced game, makes me want to figure everything out more, and i enjoy the cutscenes.

Dude Facebook has kickass games now, especially puzzle ones. Try some, you will be asking yourself "Why the fuck did I just play tetris, peggle and bejeweled for three hours"

Anyways, back on topic..
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Ashton
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« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2010, 10:27:13 AM »

Even Japanese people agree:

http://kotaku.com/5520106/why-is-japan-so-behind
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Dincrest
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« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2010, 01:02:19 PM »

Quote
Japanese game scenarios are the pits. We may be behind in graphics but that isn't a problem so long as they're fun and interesting. The problem is that teams can't focus when they have to carry through a crappy scenario to its end. I don't know whether to describe them as "childish" or "otaku-oriented" or what but a lot of games are just too ludicrous for adults to appreciate.

That's what I scream about till I'm blue in the face on these boards.  I'll gladly take "ol' fashioned" turn-based battling (I prefer turn-based to realtime) and graphics that aren't cutting edge (Dreamcast games still look killer to me.)  But I would love to see better scenario writing.  Broken record: that's why I love Anachronox so much.  It has the kind of JRPG gameplay I like but with writing and characters that aren't childish and humor that is funny without being hokey. 

I don't need oodles of originality and shiny gameplay gimmicks to be satisfied.  A good steak properly cooked using quality meat can stand on its own without the need for any sauce. 

As far as "insulting intelligence" goes, when I can play on auto-pilot simply by grinding and using the "hack and heal" technique to win every time, that gets boring.  That's one reason we love Megami Tensei so much.  You have to strategize, use elemental affinities, buffs and debuffs to your advantage, even *gasp* block or defend!

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Sagacious-T
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« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2010, 01:39:00 PM »

Alright Dincrest I'll play Anachronox! Jesus christ!
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Dincrest
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« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2010, 01:55:58 PM »

Again, sorry for sounding like a broken record.  I annoy myself with my own sounding like a broken record, especially since this point comes up often in topics like these that are ubiquitous these days.  That being said, if what you said about introductory sequences is what bothers you, I must warn you that Anachronox takes a good 3-4 hours to really warm up.  If you couldn't wait to get out of Midgar in FF7, you'll probably get annoyed by The Bricks.  Personally, I enjoyed slumming around in The Bricks. 
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Sagacious-T
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« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2010, 02:34:51 PM »

I was just poking fun. I know it's a really good game. I'll definitely play it after I get through FF13 and a few other assorted games..

And for the record I LOVED Midgar. Should have been the entire game!
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mjrpgfan
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« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2010, 02:07:27 PM »

JRPGs are story focused.  They don't want to hassle you with legitimate scoring systems, or make you feel like there's any kind of judgment of your skill going on.

What you're really asking is 'when will JRPGs be based on skill?' the answer is never, because the genre exists to tell you a story, not test your skill in a legitimate or in depth way (low skill caps, etc.).

There are plenty of other games and genres (including SRPGs) that will test your skills if you are seeking to do so.
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Adapheon
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« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2010, 04:31:29 PM »

What you're really asking is 'when will JRPGs be based on skill?' the answer is never, because the genre exists to tell you a story, not test your skill in a legitimate or in depth way (low skill caps, etc.).

I have to disagree with you there, now if you mean the genre as a whole then yes, focusing on skill based gameplay mechanics will not be the case because it just won't happen but there are more then enough jrpgs out there such as the previously mentioned SMT titles where skill, planning and strategy mean the difference between experiencing the story or the game over screen.

I would think another reason though for the thought of a lot of jrpgs being easy or not focusing on personal skill has to do with the storylines themselves, the characters are meant to be heroes, warriors of destiny or so forth and as in the case with a lot of manga and anime, you completely crush your foe. It's not so much that jrpgs are driven to deliver story above all else, it's the type of story they are telling and how the characters have to relate to that story which in this case is of hyper-powered freaks.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2010, 06:09:14 PM »

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JRPGs are story focused.

Except the stories are rarely good enough to actually justify this focus. Same for adventure games which is why the genre's mostly dead now.

Quote
What you're really asking is 'when will JRPGs be based on skill?' the answer is never, because the genre exists to tell you a story, not test your skill in a legitimate or in depth way (low skill caps, etc.).

Okay.

That's not JRPGs. That's RPGs as a whole. Definitionally, your characters' stats are more important than your own skill at playing*. In other words, it doesn't matter if you're good at attacking/shooting/whatever. It's how good your CHARACTERS are at attacking. This doesn't mean that RPGs have to be devoid of strategy. It just means that they usually are.

Particular to JRPGs though is this mindset of having to do everything in-house/from scratch/etc., so most Japanese RPG devs don't seem to have a fucking clue how to design a game because they don't draw on past experiences outside of like, a few notable examples (Mainly Dragon Quest and SMT. Tales... sort of. Just going off what I've seen, in any case. There might be other examples).

* This isn't a design philosophy I agree with at all, and as much as I dislike Oblivion, I thought that making attack hit chance not depend on stats at all was a step in the right direction. The Daggerfall fans disagreed but they're Daggerfall fans so I mean fuck them and the horrifying alpaca-centipede-duck hybrid they rode in on.
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« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2010, 06:14:58 PM »

What you're really asking is 'when will JRPGs be based on skill?'

You know, I really don't think that's what was being asked...
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Sensei Phoenix
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« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2010, 06:07:24 PM »

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* This isn't a design philosophy I agree with at all, and as much as I dislike Oblivion, I thought that making attack hit chance not depend on stats at all was a step in the right direction. The Daggerfall fans disagreed but they're Daggerfall fans so I mean fuck them and the horrifying alpaca-centipede-duck hybrid they rode in on.

As a Daggerfall fan, I have to say... QFT.
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wildcard
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« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2010, 05:49:48 AM »

I play JRPGs or RPGs and games in general to relax, to chill and all that.
Especially when playing a JRPG on a console, I certainly do not mind just having to focus on pressing one button.

If I want something with more advanced button smashing, there are various other games that offer this - the newest one being Heavy Rain, if I want to play strategy, I'll play SMT or Suikoden Tactis ant things like that.

It might be easy button smashing, but the JRPGs I've played so far and don't go power-grinding all the time, offer quite the challenges, where you must really think and plan out your battle strategy - not as much as in SMT, but good enough for my taste.
One might get used to this soon thought and when a game with similar difficoulty concerning boss fights comes along, it might seem 'easy' because ad a regular player you are used to it...

It could be more advanced, yes of course, but personally I'd prefer it if games would surprise with new story plots and twists, rather than focusing TOO much on pretty graphics.

Heavy Rain is something that I'd like partly in a rpg: One story, but with various options (including character death!) that influence the ending. It did have a few bugs, but I'd like to play an RPG where you MIGHT have an obvious solution (go and hit the enemy to death), however with slightly hidden other variants and options (e.g. joining a cirucs troup for the time being, so one can enter and exit the next city without being recognized/noticed, taking a looooong way around it, asking for help from a seemingly trustworthy, influential person, etc.). All that lead to the same goal, but with different influence factors :)
An RPG where actions and decissions have consequences.
That will force you think ahead. This level of complexity is WAY more interesting and important to me than having to smash different buttons.
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