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Subject: Persona 3: FES
Prize: $20 eShop, PSN or Steam code
Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: Marvel vs. Capcom 3 announced  (Read 34240 times)
Demon_Princess_Kay
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« Reply #255 on: August 08, 2011, 03:32:55 PM »

$60+$40 = $100 - This is the problem.

No, it's not a problem.  No one is putting a gun to your head and making you buy anything (you didn't).  No one says you have to buy it at launch at full price either.  The genre has always been like this and it's definitely not just Capcom that does it.

So wait just because the general populace is fine with getting their wallets raped we aren't supposed to complain or bitch about it ourselves. I'm sorry but I don't really care what anyone says this is straight up bullshit. Just cause fighting games have always been like this I'm supposed to grow complacent and allow it to keep happening. Well whatever screw this game I'm gonna spend my 40 dollars on something better.
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Maxximum
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« Reply #256 on: August 08, 2011, 03:44:30 PM »

Its not even true. Out of all the big titles in the Fighting genre, only Capcom does this on a regular basis.
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« Reply #257 on: August 08, 2011, 04:18:35 PM »

Soul Calibur did this once with "Soul Calibur III: Arcade Edition" and there's like three or four versions of Tekken 5 and two versions of Tekken 6 if I remember correctly.
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« Reply #258 on: August 08, 2011, 04:20:04 PM »

But not on the same platform. I don't count Arcade machines because its not something you would normally buy.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 04:25:23 PM by Maxximum » Logged

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« Reply #259 on: August 08, 2011, 04:25:52 PM »

But not on the same platform.

Good point.
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« Reply #260 on: August 08, 2011, 04:31:07 PM »

No, it's not a problem.  No one is putting a gun to your head and making you buy anything (you didn't).  No one says you have to buy it at launch at full price either.  The genre has always been like this and it's definitely not just Capcom that does it.

So wait just because the general populace is fine with getting their wallets raped we aren't supposed to complain or bitch about it ourselves. I'm sorry but I don't really care what anyone says this is straight up bullshit. Just cause fighting games have always been like this I'm supposed to grow complacent and allow it to keep happening. Well whatever screw this game I'm gonna spend my 40 dollars on something better.

Read my earlier posts.  I've said more than once that I'll probably buy it used because it's way too soon to release another game and I'm not (financially) supporting Capcom. 

Its not even true. Out of all the big titles in the Fighting genre, only Capcom does this on a regular basis.

King of Fighters
Guilty Gear
Blazblue (just starting to and yes, I'm aware they're both ASW)
Melty Blood
Mortal Kombat
Tekken
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« Reply #261 on: August 08, 2011, 04:32:54 PM »

But not on the same platform. I don't count Arcade machines because its not something you would normally buy.

Might wanna check out the PSX and PS2 era before you say something like that.  Just because they aren't current gen doesn't mean you can brush them off as "they aren't doing it"
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« Reply #262 on: August 08, 2011, 05:00:24 PM »

But not on the same platform. I don't count Arcade machines because its not something you would normally buy.

Might wanna check out the PSX and PS2 era before you say something like that.  Just because they aren't current gen doesn't mean you can brush them off as "they aren't doing it"

I do have a little more understanding for the older machines because there really wasn't any other way to update those games. Despite this, I did actually look up a few titles before I wrote that, and couldn't come up with anything that would even come close to what Capcom is doing on a regular basis.


King of Fighters
Guilty Gear
Blazblue (just starting to and yes, I'm aware they're both ASW)
Melty Blood
Mortal Kombat
Tekken

King of Fighters - Gets a new game roughly once a year, the key word here being new, its not quite the same thing.
Blazblue - Did it once so far.
Melty Blood - No idea this even existed, a little too obscure to use as an example.
Mortal Kombat - Very few instances of this happening and mostly on different platforms. The only comparable example of this happening was Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3.
Tekken - Again, very few instances of this happening and mostly on different platforms.

If these are your examples of this being a regular thing, then it either means that you still don't understand what everyone is complaining about or you had nothing to back up your statement.

Either way, I don't really want to keep arguing over this. If you don't see a problem with buying the same game multiple times, then buy two and mail me one. Everybody wins!
Seriously though, I gain nothing by trying to convince you and if you're fine with how its being done then I really see no point in dragging this out. I don't like it, a lot of other people don't like it either. Lets just leave it at that.
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« Reply #263 on: August 08, 2011, 05:28:35 PM »

But not on the same platform. I don't count Arcade machines because its not something you would normally buy.

Might wanna check out the PSX and PS2 era before you say something like that.  Just because they aren't current gen doesn't mean you can brush them off as "they aren't doing it"

I do have a little more understanding for the older machines because there really wasn't any other way to update those games. Despite this, I did actually look up a few titles before I wrote that, and couldn't come up with anything that would even come close to what Capcom is doing on a regular basis.

Street Fighter 4 had one purchase upgrade.  Super Street Fighter 4.  Super Street Fighter 4: Arcade Edition is DLC.  Yes, there is a hardcopy for fans who want a physical copy or for people who want to play it but don't have Super Street Fighter 4.  This is very similar to Blazblue. 

UMvC3 is very soon and I do agree here.  However, I'm not surprised that they did it.

King of Fighters - Gets a new game roughly once a year, the key word here being new, its not quite the same thing.
Blazblue - Did it once so far.
Melty Blood - No idea this even existed, a little too obscure to use as an example.
Mortal Kombat - Very few instances of this happening and mostly on different platforms. The only comparable example of this happening was Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3.
Tekken - Again, very few instances of this happening and mostly on different platforms.

If these are your examples of this being a regular thing, then it either means that you still don't understand what everyone is complaining about or you had nothing to back up your statement.

Please elaborate how my examples are not similar things.  Ultimate MvC3 has enough changes in it to put it with the rest of my examples. So far, UMvC3 has done it once, 9 months apart from its first release.  The other ones have done it multiple years roughly 12 months apart each.  Also, I don't see how a different system means everything is forgiven.  If it's a 1:1 port, that's a little different.  If it's on a different system but has new modes, new characters, new anything - then it's an upgrade - which is what UMvC3 is.  Again, biggest difference is it's only 9 months apart which is pretty close.

King of Fighters - yes, they released a new version.  Ultimate MvC3 is still a "new" version.  New characters, X-Factor changes, TAC changes, Balance changes, etc.
Blazblue - still a new series.  S/SF4 is in a very similar situation as Blazblue.
Melty Blood - Melty Blood is very well represented at SBO and Tougeki, two huge Japanese tournaments.  Melty Blood has also been played at numerous Evolutions.  You really don't know much about fighting games outside of Wikipedia, do you?
Mortal Kombat - the whole "different platform/console" argument is nonsense.  An upgrade or new entry into the series is a new entry.
Tekken - Again, you have no clue what the fuck you're talking about.  Tekken 2 and 3 = PSX.  Tekken 4, 5, and Tag = PS2.  Tekken Tag at least was an awesome upgrade.
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Demon_Princess_Kay
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« Reply #264 on: August 08, 2011, 05:30:14 PM »

No, it's not a problem.  No one is putting a gun to your head and making you buy anything (you didn't).  No one says you have to buy it at launch at full price either.  The genre has always been like this and it's definitely not just Capcom that does it.

So wait just because the general populace is fine with getting their wallets raped we aren't supposed to complain or bitch about it ourselves. I'm sorry but I don't really care what anyone says this is straight up bullshit. Just cause fighting games have always been like this I'm supposed to grow complacent and allow it to keep happening. Well whatever screw this game I'm gonna spend my 40 dollars on something better.

Read my earlier posts.  I've said more than once that I'll probably buy it used because it's way too soon to release another game and I'm not (financially) supporting Capcom. 


You're missing my point. I'm saying this whole everyone else does it argument isn't even valid, and it never will be.

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« Reply #265 on: August 08, 2011, 05:35:13 PM »

Yes, I'm not up to date with Japanese tournaments, you got me there. Never seen it played at Evo, but I don't follow everything that goes on there either, so Ill take your word for it.
You have pretty much just confirmed that you don't actually understand what most of us are complaining about or at the very least view it from a much, much different standing point. I don't intend to get into arguments over weather "tekken 3 is to tekken 2 as UMvC3 is to MvC3" because that's a whole new topic.
As I said, lets just leave it since obviously neither of us is going to budge on this.
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« Reply #266 on: August 08, 2011, 05:42:46 PM »

Then protest it and don't buy it.  Like I said, even though it's new to me (someone who has put over 100 hours into MvC3), I do think it's BS that it's so soon AND not dlc.  I'm not buying it new.  Honestly, fighting games are hot shit right now and a lot of people are buying them.  Things probably aren't going to change unless the genre dies down or gets over-saturated (which it kind of is already).  We can only hope it goes in more of a DLC upgrade direction.
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« Reply #267 on: August 08, 2011, 05:56:18 PM »

Yes, I'm not up to date with Japanese tournaments, you got me there.

Evolution is a US tournament.

You have pretty much just confirmed that you don't actually understand what most of us are complaining about though.

Really? Let's see.  You're mad it's not DLC when it could be.  You're mad it's not cheaper.  You're mad that they didn't just patch in the character balance changes, X-factor changes, and TAC changes.  You're mad that it's being released only 9 months after Marvel vs Capcom 3.  You're mad that they aren't including a ton of new modes.  You're mad that they took DLC from MvC3 (spectator mode) and inserted it as a brand new feature in UMvC3 (which is shitty, yes).  You're mad that they blamed the Tohoku earthquake as the reason why they couldn't include everything as DLC.  Go on.  Please do tell me how I don't understand. 

Also, you confirmed to me long time ago that you have no idea about fighting game genre and you make knee-jerk reactions.  You were mad about them releasing a free balance patch for SSF4: Arcade Edition because you were too lazy to click a link to see that it was free.  You also complained about Arcade Edition as DLC despite it including a lot for $15.
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« Reply #268 on: August 08, 2011, 05:59:46 PM »

Then protest it and don't buy it.  Like I said, even though it's new to me (someone who has put over 100 hours into MvC3), I do think it's BS that it's so soon AND not dlc.  I'm not buying it new.  Honestly, fighting games are hot shit right now and a lot of people are buying them.  Things probably aren't going to change unless the genre dies down or gets over-saturated (which it kind of is already).  We can only hope it goes in more of a DLC upgrade direction.

This at least we can agree on. I don't mind upgrades, I don't even mind paying a little extra for them if they are significant and add a lot of content, though I think that balancing and fixes should be free. Having them released as stand alone packages is also great. But I want the option to update my current product instead of being forced to re buying the whole thing. Its like having to buy a new copy of oblivion every time a patch came out.

I'll skip an in-depth reply to your second post since this one pretty much takes care of most of it, despite writing it before I had a chance to read yours. Re-read my previous post, I mention Evolution in a separate sentence, in other words, I perfectly aware of what it is and where its held. I did edit the post several times because I decided I may have come across a little too aggressive, so maybe you didn't have that part refreshed. I'm no fighting game expert, that I will also agree on, but I don't need to know frame counts to see when a company is milking money.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 06:15:39 PM by Maxximum » Logged

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« Reply #269 on: August 08, 2011, 06:15:46 PM »

Then protest it and don't buy it.  Like I said, even though it's new to me (someone who has put over 100 hours into MvC3), I do think it's BS that it's so soon AND not dlc.  I'm not buying it new.  Honestly, fighting games are hot shit right now and a lot of people are buying them.  Things probably aren't going to change unless the genre dies down or gets over-saturated (which it kind of is already).  We can only hope it goes in more of a DLC upgrade direction.

This at least we can agree on. I don't mind upgrades, I don't even mind paying a little extra for them if they are significant and add a lot of content, though I think that balancing and fixes should be free. Having them released as stand alone packages is also great. But I want the option to update my current product instead of being forced to re buying the whole thing. Its like having to buy a new copy of oblivion every time a patch came out.

but I don't need to know frame counts to see when a company is milking money.

Ha.  That last line sounds like a politician.  Regardless, it does come off as a cash grab and probably is.

As far as upgrades go, i think it's just a west vs east mentality.  NRS wants to make MK9 a very balanced fighter.  Not MK9: Kontinuum pack and not MK10 so I commend them for that.  I do see Japanese developers point of view too though.  They don't want to patch a fighter and have to have a customer to visit a website to find out what has changed or have a customer turn on his game and find out XYZ combo doesn't work anymore.  I respect both views and each can work depending on the publisher.

You edited your earlier post so I'll add this.

Quote
at the very least view it from a much, much different standing point.

I see why people are pissed off.  I listed it all above.  I'm a consumer first and a fighting game fan second.  Our standpoints are different because I've put countless hours into playing the game and watching the game.  You haven't purchased the first game (which is fine) so I'm not surprised our views are different.  I've sat down and played the game for 5-6 hours on end every night I can.  I've also watched a ton of match videos and discussed strategies on forums.  I'm not bored of MvC3, but I'm definitely more willing to accept their overpriced, too-soon released product because I'm intrigued.  Most people here probably haven't put the hours into the game I have.  They've probably done a few mission modes, played story mode a couple times, and then shelved the game.  Now, Capcom is telling them that they need to buy this new product when they just have bought the old one 4-5 months prior and they're pissed (rightfully).  I'm not surprised our viewpoints differ.  I'm pretty sure most of the people here play casually and I don't.  Those two views don't align very often in fighting games.
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