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Author Topic: Marvel vs. Capcom 3 announced  (Read 32013 times)
Hidoshi
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« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2010, 08:52:30 AM »

I imagine making a 2D game with a massive cast like this would be crazy expensive in this day and age.

Well, SNK is doing it with KOFXIII. I'm not sure what the total amount of characters is, but it's going to be a lot. How expensive is it really to make a 2D fighting game from the ground up? I'm curious. Especially today when the fans would want HI-RES, HD sprites.

Depends on what you're looking at, and what kind of company you are. Capcom has the money to do a 2D fighter, but that's not the point for them. For all our haranguing about how 2D is its own beautiful medium (and it is), the mass market doesn't see it that way. 3D sells, it's seen as "next-gen" (whatever that means), and it's easier to get all those dramatic, crowd-pleasing camera angles when dealing with polygonal models.

SNK has gone the other route, to sufficiently lesser response. If you compared the numbers for Street Fighter IV against King of Fighters XII, what would you do as a business? Even Arc System Works, having grown Guilty Gear as a healthy franchise, doesn't make the kind of profit Capcom does.

2D has its place. Megaman sells based around 2D retro. But that's based on expectations. No one expects Megaman to be a cinematically enticing experience. Megaman doesn't need punch or vigor. Street Fighter does. When they moved into high-end 2D with Street Fighter III, they created an impossible situation for themselves. Street Fighter as a franchise has to keep abreast of the situation; it's why they allow for experiments like Arika's ill-received "EX+Alpha" series. It won't hurt the company's image or the main SF following, but it lets them test out what the franchise would be able to do.

That said, I'm sure Capcom decided 3D (strictly speaking, 2.5D is still 3D, so I'm not going to split hairs) was finally at a place where they could execute their vision in 3D. Consider that they needed fast enough framerates, particle effects, smooth enough character models, high enough resolution on textures and so on to bring over Street Fighter's cartoon look. Well, this was that time. It wouldn't have worked even on the PS2 -- that machine can't do what they want. But the 360 and PS3? They can.

Will Capcom return to 2D with Street Fighter or another related franchise? Only if they see it as a viable avenue for business. It makes no sense for MvS3 to be in 2D. Not only do portions of rigs make it easier for them to swap around effects (you can use the same bones for several different models if they're similar enough), but they can make things look more interesting to the general consumer. That's where the money's at.

They know we're going to buy the game anyway because of how good their brand is. Our quips and twitters about 2D? Those won't matter come gametime. We'll be playing, like everyone else.

But hey, I could be wrong. Capcom could look at the retro revival and their success with Megaman and greenlight 2D as a medium for a future fighting game. I just don't think it'll be MvS3.
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Alisha
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« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2010, 02:44:20 PM »

i'm starting to wonder if all this oh we have to appeal to the mainstream stuff will one day kill videogames in my eyes. the amount of videogames i was interested in playing in 2009 pales compared to 1999. i want MvC3 to be 2D!
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« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2010, 05:20:56 PM »

With the kind of narrow scope of vision presented in this thread, videogames were GOING to die without mainstream appeal.
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2010, 05:25:14 PM »

This just in: You are part of the mainstream. You always have been. 2D animated sprites were a "mainstream" thing; the anime look of a lot of our beloved fighting games from yesteryear like MvC2 and SFAlpha are due to what was popular and mainstream with our crowd at the time. We were just younger then, and the internet didn't allow for quite such a high level of bitching.

Gaming, in "your" eyes it just may be ruined one day, not because of the actual quality of gaming, but because you slip into the age rut. At a certain point in your life, what was once "yours" will belong to another generation, be made to suit them, and becomes "theirs". Because you begin to view it as an outsider, you can't see the qualifications of the work and begin to sharply outline its flaws.

It's why "old people" say that their kids' "music sucks".

That said, the rut can be avoided, but I think only with continual observance of your own tastes, and a willingness to change. You have to keep in-the-know about things, stay current, and don't let yourself get frustrated. Most of all, as you get busier from day-to-day activities, you have to make time for this kind of thing, instead of constantly paring it away due to other commitments. Not to say you should pay too much attention, but work it into your life if you want to stay informed and up-to-date.

There will be ups and downs for the industry of course, but all such things are temporary. Two or three years may go by and parts of gaming will look like a wasteland, but then spring comes to the world and we're all happy again. Well, some of us. (When RPGs were seeing great things happen on the Dreamcast and PS2, 2D fighting games were in an absolute rut, with the high point being Arcana Heart -- an awful thing to consider.)

Otherwise yes, if you choose to get into the age rut, surely you will find yourself becoming less enchanted with games.
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Kevadu
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« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2010, 06:48:31 PM »

I just want to thank you for that wonderful post, Hidoshi.  I'm not trying to suck up or anything, I just really feel you deserve it.
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« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2010, 08:16:27 PM »

I just want to thank you for that wonderful post, Hidoshi.  I'm not trying to suck up or anything, I just really feel you deserve it.


Agreed. Thanks for responding to my question, Hidoshi. Very informative.

While I would want MVC3 to be in spiffy 2D, it's not very realistic these days for Capcom to do that with a fighting game. It's risky. That said, games like TVC do look very good and I have no problem with MVC3 looking similar to it.
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« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2010, 08:21:52 PM »

Graphically speaking, I don't think it'll be much different from Tatsunoko vs Capcom.  Gameplay wise, I'm not sure.  I could see it doing either in terms of TvC or MvC2 (My guess, more like MvC2).  Also graphically speaking, as long as it's not 3D like Soul Calibur, I do not give a flying fuck because it's MAAAHHVEL BABY.  If you want 2D, go play continuum shift (which will be a good game, don't get me wrong).

Looks to have at least 30 characters.  Number not confirmed but it's what they're saying for the moment.  No lame backdrops.  
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« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2010, 12:03:23 PM »

They better have the Leo from Red Earth! When I first saw TvC in action, I thought that it was a set up for the new Marvel vs Capcom 3 engine. I wouldnt be surprised if they just adjust the engine from TvC to have 3 players and add the marvel characters. I know its not that simple but I think the end product will look like that and in 720p for xbox and ps3.
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Hidoshi
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« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2010, 12:35:54 PM »

I fail to see why Capcom would include characters from a failed one-shot like RedEarth, especially in a headlining title. The only place we've seen these characters has been low-budget experimental titles, like Capcom Fighting Evolution and SNK vs. Capcom: Chaos.
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Hathen
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« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2010, 02:21:31 AM »

I would've liked for it to be 2D simply because I think 2D looks better for this kind of game. SF4 looked great, I'm just not a huge fan of the style.

And I find TvC to play about the same as MvC, but I like MvC "hectic-ness" a lot more.
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Esper_Crusader
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« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2010, 09:14:49 AM »

There's no WAY they are going to limit this one to 30 characters. Either out of the gate or through DLC, I can see this one topping 50...eventually.
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« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2010, 11:46:47 AM »

Well remember that MvC2 only hit 52 characters because most of them were culled from other games; they didn't have to do almost any work to put most of the cast in.  Also note that a lot of the spritework is incredibly lazy, with multiple attacks using the same/similar animations and several characters having very few animation frames(For example, one of the reasons Magneto is so strong is because Capcom was lazy and only gave his Jab a single animation frame).  In this game, they have to build nearly everybody from scratch; at best they might be able to get a few materials from TvC and SF4, but that's about it.  30-35 is as high as I see it going.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 11:49:12 AM by Gen Eric Gui » Logged
Alisha
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« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2010, 06:55:56 PM »

I fail to see why Capcom would include characters from a failed one-shot like RedEarth, especially in a headlining title. The only place we've seen these characters has been low-budget experimental titles, like Capcom Fighting Evolution and SNK vs. Capcom: Chaos.

well.......they had son son in mvc2 and frankly i was pleasently surprised hayato was in the game or as my friends lovingly call him sword guy.
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« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2010, 11:47:52 PM »

I was happy with the announcement of this game. But then I remember... "I want Capcom vs. SNK 3 more" and then I remember how the guys at SNKP are literally struggling to sell The King of Fighters XIII nowadays.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 11:55:10 PM by Yggdrasil » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2010, 12:11:57 PM »

well the most recent KOF that was good was 11. 12 was bad.....
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