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Author Topic: Underrated RPGs: Valkyrie Profile 2  (Read 3595 times)
Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2010, 11:27:52 AM »

I would heartily disagree with everything you just said.  Especially the part about "better overall story".

And something I forgot to mention last night is that in VP1, all the characters are unique and have different attack styles and animations.  In VP2 every single Einherjar is just a bad clone of the main characters, they have all the same selections of attacks and animations for everything.  It just takes away more of the atmosphere and feeling that each character was a unique identity with a reason for being there.

Honestly, I think Vp2 would have been a better game had they kept the Einherjar out completely and named it something different.  It's not like Tri-Ace has qualms about inserting Lezard in other places he doesn't belong in.
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WildArms
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2010, 11:41:42 AM »

The worst part about VP1 was how stupid the ending was. The good ending, that is.

Then again I dont think Tri-Ace knows how to write a good ending..

They're happy even if they lack substance and proper explanations.  Beats a Hamlet ending (remember WA4?)

Wait... WA4? wild arms 4? As far as i know Tri-Ace didn't had anything to do with WA4.... but yeah , WA4's ending sucked so much, god >_>
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2010, 12:22:07 PM »

most of my complaints about VP2 are small things like generic soul crushes for the einheriar,and the randomness in how you get einheriar. but i loved the gem system to the dungeons. how you use or dont use this system can dramatically effect your enjoyment of the game. as far as CotP is concerned...i loved it on my first playthrough but started to dislike it on my second. if you can actually get the best ending on your first playthrough.... just wow. unlocking the seraphic gate is painful. latstly anyone that tells you VP2 has 2 endings is lying. both endings are the same its just a matter of weather a certain character makes a cameo appearance in the ending.
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2010, 01:09:00 PM »

The worst part about VP1 was how stupid the ending was. The good ending, that is.

Then again I dont think Tri-Ace knows how to write a good ending..

They're happy even if they lack substance and proper explanations.  Beats a Hamlet ending (remember WA4?)

Wait... WA4? wild arms 4? As far as i know Tri-Ace didn't had anything to do with WA4.... but yeah , WA4's ending sucked so much, god >_>

I didn't mean to imply that TriAce and WA4 *are* related.  Just trying peg an example. 
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2010, 03:43:43 PM »

The worst part about VP1 was how stupid the ending was. The good ending, that is.

Then again I dont think Tri-Ace knows how to write a good ending..

They're happy even if they lack substance and proper explanations.  Beats a Hamlet ending (remember WA4?)

Wait... WA4? wild arms 4? As far as i know Tri-Ace didn't had anything to do with WA4.... but yeah , WA4 sucked so much, god >_>

Fixed.


Btw, I find it humorous that people are trying to defend Tri-Ace's writing abilities. VP1 was a complete fluke at best and crappy DBZ bullshit at worst.

Actually here's what I think of Tri-Ace in general.

Visually speaking their games are on par with Squeenix in general, just look to the current console JRPGs to see what I mean. This I feel is by far their strongest suite.

Gameplay wise, their games can be divided into two different categories. The SO games are simply overly convoluted messes that devolve down to one or two basic strategies that will get you through every situation ever with shitloads of grinding and gamebreaking to sift through the broken (one way or the other) gameplay elements to find one of the aforementioned basic strategy. The VP games are a lot more straight forward but still boil themselves down to use these guys in this order to win at everything ever. Basically think how FFVIII's gameplay and innovation devolved into spam limitbreaks and refine from cards. Out of all their games I think VP2 has the best gameplay mechanics due to having an actual battlefield to contend with and different enemies to dodge (enemies AoE attacks and breakable body parts were the biggest emphasis in that game). I haven't found their worst gameplay system yet but I'm going to hazard a guess and point to SO:BS (that or if the Wolf Team that devolved into Tri-Ace is the same Wolf Team from Telenet then Earnest Evans is most likely the safest bet).

Either way, it should be noted that the quality usually varies wildly but on average is their second best field (it should also be noted that no matter what the game, every Tri-Ace game simply does not have a Magic option that isn't complete and utter shit).

Musically speaking they have Motoi Sakuraba as their sole composer/music director. Unfortunately they have Motoi Sakuraba as their sole composer/music director and he ran out of ideas by the end of ToP and since recycles everything worth half a damn.

And finally there's the writing which seems to be done by some talentless hack who's simply moonlighting in between Harem Mangas of Chaos Head level quality (for the love of God DO NOT LOOK THAT UP!!!).
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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2010, 04:15:44 PM »

I think the strong points in most Tri-Ace games I've played were the gameplay, in VP1 I would say it's the characters backgrounds.

CotP I thought it was good at first, especially because I easily get addicted to most SRPGs, but the fact that you can't have fights that are not scripted was a let down for me. I don't remember the details, so forgive but if I'm not mistaken we had a possibility to give the enemies an attack that would "overkill" them, and we'd get something from them. But if we didn't we'd piss off the girl from hell and she would send some monster to kick your ass and "force" you to sacrifice your characters.

The broken part is that since we can't level up on our own, if we don't "overkill" the enemies we'll probably be weaker than we could, and it carries over, so the gap just keeps getting bigger.
Where in some games a small low lvl would be fine by using a better strategy instead of brute force, in this one makes it virtually impossible to "overkill" an enemy since the damage you need to do is related to your level, which you couldn't put higher in the first place.

Bottom line, it's a loop and it just makes the game harder and unfair.

Probably someday I'll use a cheat to beat it and at least enjoy the story, which was quite fun. (at least in the beginning)
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WildArms
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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2010, 06:50:54 PM »


Wait... WA4? wild arms 4? As far as i know Tri-Ace didn't had anything to do with WA4.... but yeah , WA4 sucked so much, god >_>

Fixed.


HEY! at least the battle system was interesting.... >:P
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2010, 07:32:43 PM »

but the fact that you can't have fights that are not scripted was a let down for me. I don't remember the details, so forgive but if I'm not mistaken we had a possibility to give the enemies an attack that would "overkill" them, and we'd get something from them. But if we didn't we'd piss off the girl from hell and she would send some monster to kick your ass and "force" you to sacrifice your characters.

The broken part is that since we can't level up on our own, if we don't "overkill" the enemies we'll probably be weaker than we could, and it carries over, so the gap just keeps getting bigger.  Where in some games a small low lvl would be fine by using a better strategy instead of brute force, in this one makes it virtually impossible to "overkill" an enemy since the damage you need to do is related to your level, which you couldn't put higher in the first place.

That's a common trait of SRPGs that forbid grinding.  A better solution would be to add multiple difficulty levels.  You never have to sacrifice your party to kill the realmstalkers.  Even if you deliberately fail the sin quota you can still keep progressing.  But if you're unintentionally failing the sin quota then you probably aren't skilled enough to handle realmstalkers anyway.

Take a look here if you want to see some clips of me doing the no sin/no plume run.

http://www.youtube.com/user/mjemirzian#p/c/525A7534E76C1E43
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 11:46:25 AM by mjrpgfan » Logged
daschrier
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« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2010, 09:02:05 AM »

I enjoyed VP2 up until the midpoint when the game gets noticeably harder and I quit. Seems that many people quit around this point.

Plus, I have gaming OCD and Tri-Ace games don't work well with this. I am enjoying Resonance of Fate right now, which is very similar to VP2 mechanic wise, so I may go back and tackle it at some point.
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« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2010, 12:33:13 PM »

but the fact that you can't have fights that are not scripted was a let down for me. I don't remember the details, so forgive but if I'm not mistaken we had a possibility to give the enemies an attack that would "overkill" them, and we'd get something from them. But if we didn't we'd piss off the girl from hell and she would send some monster to kick your ass and "force" you to sacrifice your characters.

The broken part is that since we can't level up on our own, if we don't "overkill" the enemies we'll probably be weaker than we could, and it carries over, so the gap just keeps getting bigger.  Where in some games a small low lvl would be fine by using a better strategy instead of brute force, in this one makes it virtually impossible to "overkill" an enemy since the damage you need to do is related to your level, which you couldn't put higher in the first place.

That's a common trait of SRPGs that forbid grinding.  A better solution would be to add multiple difficulty levels.  You never have to sacrifice your party to kill the realmstalkers.  Even if you deliberately fail the sin quota you can still keep progressing.  But if you're unintentionally failing the sin quota then you probably aren't skilled enough to handle realmstalkers anyway.

Take a look here if you want to see some clips of me doing the no sin/no plume run.



http://www.youtube.com/user/mjemirzian#p/c/525A7534E76C1E43

I went to see your playthrough of Covenant of the Plume and I saw Bayonetta. Oh My God! You're incredible! And I've only seen the prologue, can't wait to see the rest. On hard I died on the prologue, lol, and that after breezing my way on normal.

But Back to topic. Have you considered that maybe you do play much better than most people ?
I mean, I do create numerous strategies while playing an RPG, or any other kind of game, but I believe that these strategies people create normally adjust to their play style. If you have a wider range of styles of playing you can create more strategies. If my memory is correct, lots of reviews of CotP said the game was harder than it could be, and I think so too. It's not unbeatable, but there are times that they are a pain, especially because you can't level up more than the story missions let you.

I think my main problem with the game was not being able to reach the quota, because as I was finding it hard, I was playing more defensively but by doing so, I was doing little damage at a single time, meaning, no quota.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2010, 12:39:45 PM »

Mjem is naturally gifted at forming strategies in games, and is at the same time a hardcore munchkin-style player, but he doesn't really realize that other people aren't exactly like him.  Trust me, I've been witness to (and a couple of times involved in) this exact arguement with him at least 4 times before.  You aren't going to get anywhere.
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mjrpgfan
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« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2010, 02:46:00 PM »

Well thanks, I do consider myself pretty good at SRPGs, although I'd say I'm only decent at Bayonetta.. there are players that can do some really impressive stuff.  A lot of those Bayo runs took a lot of hitting the retry button many many times until I got it right.  I also really like Cave shoot em ups even though I can't 1cc any of them.

I think games should appeal to players of all skill levels, so vp:cotp could definitely improve there, while still not allowing grinding.  I like the recent method Super Mario Galaxy 2 implemented where if you're having trouble the game will play through the section for you, with the penalty being a bronze star instead of a gold one.  Maybe if you keep failing in an SRPG the game will level you up and give you better items automatically, at the expense of your score going down.  I've never demanded that developers only cater to super hardcore players.  My only problem is when people state falsehoods like 'you have to grind to get through this' or 'Disgaea is the most strategic SRPG evar'.

I mean, I do create numerous strategies while playing an RPG, or any other kind of game, but I believe that these strategies people create normally adjust to their play style. If you have a wider range of styles of playing you can create more strategies.

Well there's always one optimal strategy when it comes to pve games.  The challenge is figuring it out and executing it.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 03:14:57 PM by mjrpgfan » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2010, 04:20:57 PM »

I enjoyed VP2 up until the midpoint when the game gets noticeably harder and I quit. Seems that many people quit around this point.

Plus, I have gaming OCD and Tri-Ace games don't work well with this. I am enjoying Resonance of Fate right now, which is very similar to VP2 mechanic wise, so I may go back and tackle it at some point.

anything that can be considered hard in VP2 there is some way around it. if something seems hard its probally because you arent saving spheres from dungeons and/or arent farming accessories so you can get the best skills available. with the right set up you can become near invincible. also theres a couple optional quests that arent really optional. because they increase your capacity to hold spheres.

one more thing....the characters designs for VP2 are really bad glad they went back for CotP.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 04:36:22 PM by Alisha » Logged


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« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2010, 06:16:42 AM »

I had a feeling Kat wrote this. Personally I'm not a big fan of the Valkyrie Profile games. I enjoyed the first game, but the constant repetition of it wore me down after a while, to the point that I doubt I'll ever finish it. The sequel I just couldn't get into. I never felt like I truly understood how everything worked. I'm sure I could if I just read a bit about it and mucked around with it for a bit, but there are so many other games I'd rather play.
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« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2010, 12:27:42 PM »

Quote
VP2 is esentially VP1, just expanded into a 3D atmosphere.
The big thing that made VP1 so absolutely incredible is each of the character's recruitment stories.  Even in just seeing the character's deaths, you got to see so much of who they were, and what the world was like at the time. 

You know, those stories I've always found lackluster. Not much too them at all. I got more attached to the main characters in VP2. Of course, my favorite VP1 character becomeing the final boss in VP2 has a lot to do why I love the game so much. Lezard is so damn awesome.

Not to mention I found the VP2 battle system more enjoyable. Also, I love VP2 music.

Well, I'd be the odd ball that enjoyed VP2 more than VP1. I found the main story and combat system a lot better in the sequel.

Quote
the characters designs for VP2 are really bad
Thats odd. I didn't have a problem with design. I liked them.

Is there something wrong with me? I thought Alicia was a lot more interesting then bland Lenneth. I really enjoyed watching her grow from a very shy girl into a warrior. Plus hrist, I love hrist. Ah, what a memorable boss fight. That and fighting Odin was epic as well. I still find it odd that VP1 fans don't like VP2 more. I played VP1 first and moved on to VP2 and enjoyed it more.

Werid.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 12:48:48 PM by bigdeath » Logged
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