Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 18, 2014, 06:07:48 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Congratulations to Andrew Barker! RPGfan Editor of the Year and now Chief News Editor!
340889 Posts in 13931 Topics by 2222 Members
Latest Member: XanTehMan
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  RPGFan Message Boards
|-+  Media
| |-+  Single-Player RPGs
| | |-+  Alpha Protocol
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Print
Author Topic: Alpha Protocol  (Read 8313 times)
Sagacious-T
Posts: 2381


Official Pony Thread

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2010, 10:34:16 PM »

The whole "play the game how it should be played" argument is ridiculous. If a game is shit, it wouldn't matter what way you play it. This was the same argument made for Resident Evil . It didn't fly there, and it won't fly here.

I disagree. If you go into Resident Evil 0 through 3 and expect it to play like RE4, then bitch about it because it's different, that is not a valid argument. Resident Evil's tank controls had a very good purpose.

Logged
Ashton
Contributing Editor
Posts: 5101


Lawful Asshole

Member
*


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2010, 10:37:33 PM »

Sorry, I meant RE5. Ignoring a generation's worth of gameplay improvements then expecting to have people eat it up is absurd.
Logged

Sagacious-T
Posts: 2381


Official Pony Thread

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2010, 10:41:20 PM »

Oh okay, but you still get my point about the other comparison right?

I understand why you would want the game to be streamlined to match current gameplay standards, and by all means judge the game by it's lack of modern gameplay, that is your opinion as a journalist after all. However, I don't think the game shouldn't be punished just because it's different.

I couldn't figure out why the hell my Secret of Mana sword slashes were doing such pitiful damage as a kid because I'd be trained to play Zelda. imagine if that game was slammed for it's controls.
Logged
Ashton
Contributing Editor
Posts: 5101


Lawful Asshole

Member
*


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2010, 10:57:23 PM »

See, the problem I have is not that Alpha Protocol's damage depends on dice rolls; that's fine. It's that they decided to overlay it with a shooter gameplay style. It's annoying when you have precise targeting for a headshot, then miss because the dice roll says you did. If they wanted to do the whole stats thing they could've just did it like Vagrant Story or Fallout 3 and allowed you to target body parts, instead of having a subpar shooter interface.
Logged

Sagacious-T
Posts: 2381


Official Pony Thread

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2010, 11:10:24 PM »

Yeah I suppose that is just a fundamental game design flaw. The appeal of an action-RPG is much more than an auto targeting dice rolling RPG these days.
Logged
Uru
Posts: 362


Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2010, 11:42:14 PM »

For reference, I used the assault rifle the entire game (I just beat it a little while ago) and had no problems killing people. I tried using the pistol in the beginning (did a stealth build with silenced assault bullets) and I hated how long it took for you to begin to aim. But never did I miss when I waited for the shot, never. I dont really think there are any hidden dice being rolled. The game clearly gives you a huge circle and tells you, "your bullets will fly somewhere in this general area, good luck not aiming". Killing people became a breeze once I got about halfway through the AR skill set.

The game probably aged me about 10 years playing it on hard recruit setting -_-.  I definitely dont recommend doing it for your first play through. Started up a second one on normal with veteran setting and was blown away by how easy it was. I guess you just have to get use to the mechanics, its different thats for sure.

(Missed one of the sex scenes and I didnt save so I can get it  ;   ;)
Logged
LaVal
Posts: 35

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2010, 11:49:46 PM »

Quote
You're taking it way out of context. There's a difference in variety of gameplay, and trying to make the gameplay something that it is not.

What am I taking out of context?  Just like the developer's claims, you can ignore stealth and go for a 3rd person shooter approach.  And that approach is ineffective and poorly designed.  Why should a sub-par 3rd person shooter aspect be acceptable just because there are other ways to play it?
Logged
Uru
Posts: 362


Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2010, 12:10:39 AM »

Quote
You're taking it way out of context. There's a difference in variety of gameplay, and trying to make the gameplay something that it is not.

What am I taking out of context?  Just like the developer's claims, you can ignore stealth and go for a 3rd person shooter approach.  And that approach is ineffective and poorly designed.  Why should a sub-par 3rd person shooter aspect be acceptable just because there are other ways to play it?

You can do the same thing for MGS 3, but good luck with that. But I guess Kojima never stated that it could be played that way. To be honest, I think it would be near impossible to beat the game on hard without having at least half the sneaking skills under your belt. For some reason I can only imagine the game being played one way and then after everyones beaten it they go mess around with combat builds. I fucked up picking what I wanted to specialize in, so I locked myself into having shotgun (didnt even touch it -_-), AR, and toughness. So once I maxed out at halfway on stealth I focused on my combat build to get me out of the "oh shit" moments i had cause of my shitty stealth and hacking skills.

The thing is, I stll played like I was a stealth build. Seriously, when you are endgame and EVERYONE takes three bursts of AR to the head to kill but only two pop shots to kill you, no one can play it like a straight up shooter.
Logged
Superflat
Podcast Mom
Posts: 1179


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2010, 01:56:56 AM »

See, the problem I have is not that Alpha Protocol's damage depends on dice rolls; that's fine. It's that they decided to overlay it with a shooter gameplay style. It's annoying when you have precise targeting for a headshot, then miss because the dice roll says you did. If they wanted to do the whole stats thing they could've just did it like Vagrant Story or Fallout 3 and allowed you to target body parts, instead of having a subpar shooter interface.

This...

Yeah I suppose that is just a fundamental game design flaw. The appeal of an action-RPG is much more than an auto targeting dice rolling RPG these days.

...and this are what I've been getting at.

I dont really think there are any hidden dice being rolled. The game clearly gives you a huge circle and tells you, "your bullets will fly somewhere in this general area, good luck not aiming".

This is incorrect.

Just beat the game, enjoyed the final missions but the actual ending leaves much to be desired. There was definitely an "OH SHIT" moment or two near the end, but I wanted more wrap up with some of the characters. Overall, I would say that I enjoyed the game, but it is impossible not to realize that the game is fundamentally flawed. If you combined Alpha Protocol's dialogue and story with Mass Effect 2's production values and combat, it's entirely possible that I would call it Game of the Year. But alas, this is not the case, and indeed, it is a travesty.

Oh yeah, and Steven "Don't Call Me Steve" Heck is the best character in the game.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 02:41:11 AM by Superflat » Logged
Uru
Posts: 362


Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2010, 02:10:48 PM »

"We could have designed an RPG in which every move you made was determined by a secret dice dice-roll, but nobody wants to line up a perfect headshot and have it ruined by a random behind-the-scenes calculation."

My italics. Source: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/05/13/spying-on-spies-alpha-protocol-interview/

Sorry, but you aren't aiming correctly.


Yeah, the ending was definitely anticlimactic. I was like, "really? thats it???"

Logged
Superflat
Podcast Mom
Posts: 1179


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2010, 06:38:52 PM »

"We could have designed an RPG in which every move you made was determined by a secret dice dice-roll, but nobody wants to line up a perfect headshot and have it ruined by a random behind-the-scenes calculation."

I'm not going to say one of the game's producers was lying (i.e. maliciously so), but this clearly isn't how the shooting works. Case in point: the accuracy stat. It wouldn't exist if not for under-the-hood calculations. Either way the gunplay is sub-par, and I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Logged
Uru
Posts: 362


Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2010, 07:10:56 PM »

Ill agree with you on that the gunplay is sub-par when compared to something as instantly gratifying as Mass Effect or MGS 4. I think the accuracy stat just made your circle smaller or your cursor shrink faster for the crit shots.


The game was fun, for as generic as it was, something about it made me want to keep playing it to see the end.
Logged
Ashton
Contributing Editor
Posts: 5101


Lawful Asshole

Member
*


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2010, 12:30:30 AM »

"We could have designed an RPG in which every move you made was determined by a secret dice dice-roll, but nobody wants to line up a perfect headshot and have it ruined by a random behind-the-scenes calculation."

This is completely untrue.
Logged

Uru
Posts: 362


Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2010, 01:28:10 AM »

ok.


Anyone else beat it yet?
Logged
Fei
Posts: 1336


!?

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2010, 01:48:23 AM »

I did, and I hope to god that people aren't seriously claiming that bullets hitting randomly within the circular reticle (the reticle itself being governed by your accuracy, stability, and recoil stats) constitutes action-RPG die-rolling...
Logged

If you re-spec your elduhz and own a Vita - http://twitter.com/BSNursery
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!