Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 20, 2014, 04:24:32 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
RPGFan Community Quiz!
Persona 3 FES Quiz is now OVER!
Winner was user: Monsoon!
334409 Posts in 13701 Topics by 2200 Members
Latest Member: Rgeneb1
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  RPGFan Message Boards
|-+  Media
| |-+  Single-Player RPGs
| | |-+  super robot taisen og saga: masou kishin lord of elemental
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: super robot taisen og saga: masou kishin lord of elemental  (Read 2392 times)
Alisha
Posts: 2737


Member
*

Z0eila@hotmail.com Z0eila
View Profile

Ignore
« on: June 03, 2010, 08:34:43 PM »

long title! anyone else playing this? mine came in the mail friday just before memorial day weekend and i've been playing it like a fiend. even though its a remake of a snes game(wich i never played) this is easily the best srw game since og2/ogs. it is a little different so it takes some getting used to. its sorta like if FFT and and SRW had a baby this would be the result. facing is important here....attacks in the back do x1.5 damage >_< and often you may have to make a compromise because attacking someone in the back could leave your back open. i also like how when you fully upgrade some attacks the animation changes and you can upgrade it to max again. the music is great too! the battle animations look great but also take some getting used to. the best way i could describe them is that is like what a modern day shining force might look like. also if this game comes here *crosses fingers* Saphine mech might get a partial nudity tag =P lol her expression when she gets hit...

heres a video of Goddess attacks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiCne6M3LoA

oh yeah obscene amount of route splits too.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 08:37:18 PM by Alisha » Logged


“Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from.”
Sagacious-T
Posts: 2381


Official Pony Thread

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2010, 10:26:43 PM »

I came in here to make a comment about the long title but you denied me of even that small pleasure.

The game looks cool. At first I thought it was another boring SRPG but those animations are damn good.

Too bad the game won't be translated. How many Super Robot Wars games are translated anyways?
Logged
fates
Posts: 142



Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2010, 11:58:40 PM »

This one has a chance to be brought over, because there's no licensed properties involved.

Will it? Atlus might do it, but they didn't do the PS2 OG, so it's up in the air.
Logged
Gen Eric Gui
Posts: 2302


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2010, 12:00:11 AM »

They didn't do the PS2 OG for a lot of reasons.  Many of them are moot because of the fact that this is on the DS.
Logged
insertnamehere
Posts: 1302


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2010, 12:44:16 AM »

nope, but now I want it eventually
and also want that endless frontier game in this series too
i'll probably get it with devil survivor and chrono trigger once i get a ds.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 01:29:02 AM by insertnamehere » Logged

come get high with me
ba dum tissssss
Aeolus
This is the Monado's Powerbomb!
Posts: 6436


Little did he know, the fall damage would KO him.

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2010, 01:20:10 AM »

I came in here thinking there was an announcement of its localization status and find that its only about the JP release.

That said, I hope it too gets its own confirmed localization announcement.

Plus watch out if you're playing a pirated copy or something that would otherwise trigger the game's DRM because if you are then you're in a 'dead man walking' scenario. Best advice is to never have Masaki go up against Shuu unless you want to take a MAXIMUM POWER straight to the face.
Logged

In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.
Alisha
Posts: 2737


Member
*

Z0eila@hotmail.com Z0eila
View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2010, 07:27:41 PM »

just fought a super cheap boss.

it had 50k hp, hp regen around 5000 defense! lvl 8 sword block and mirror image.....at least i didnt have to worry about keeping fang alive D: by the time i won he had used all 15 of his ammo then i drained off all his remaining MG with Mio. Lune probally did the most damage to him because her trait to attack twice kicked in  few times. it was cool when thomas arrived so i could build some morale.


also Lune rocks in this game seems she trained with master rishu and/or sanger....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAs3YmxU464
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 07:41:21 PM by Alisha » Logged


“Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from.”
Spoony Mage
I aim to misbehave.
Posts: 423


I also aim to please and shoot to kill.

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2010, 09:46:17 PM »

I can just imagine Lune screaming "CHESTOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" during that final attack.

I'm loving the attack animations in this game (ZOMG, full-sized mechs!). 
Logged

Support Silent Protagonists!
At least SOMEONE knows when to shut up!
Ramza
Enjoying Retirement
Editor Emeritus
Posts: 9323


Member
*

TSDPatGann
View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2010, 11:34:05 PM »

really hope this comes to the US.

To clarify Alisha: is the plot of this game basically the same story/structure as the original Lord of Elemental game for SNES? Or is this a whole new story, focusing around the Masoukishin folk?
Logged

Aeolus
This is the Monado's Powerbomb!
Posts: 6436


Little did he know, the fall damage would KO him.

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2010, 10:02:47 AM »

really hope this comes to the US.

To clarify Alisha: is the plot of this game basically the same story/structure as the original Lord of Elemental game for SNES? Or is this a whole new story, focusing around the Masoukishin folk?

I would imagine it being the former rather than the later given how this game is supposed to be a loving remake and not a sequel, prequel, or gaiden.

But then again I don't think remakes should add in a bunch of forced characterizations and mechanics that weren't there to begin with just to appease those who can't get over the fact that the game never had that stuff to begin with (nevermind the need to overhaul the plot to fit all those characterizations or new areas/characters/mechanics in, and at that point they might as well make an entirely new game instead otherwise they end up with a pile of shit like Sword of Mana).
Logged

In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.
Hathen
Posts: 1964


FORUM IDIOT

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2010, 07:07:07 PM »

Lots of great memories. SRW Gaiden was the first SRW I played a lot of, and I recall playing the SNES version of this game a while back. As I recall, it's absurdly difficult, at least compared to the other SRW games.

I'm pretty impressed what they did with the animations this time around- seems like the majority of them involve hand-drawn animation stuff instead of animating the sprites. No voice acting outside map attacks kinda sucks though.

Quote
But then again I don't think remakes should add in a bunch of forced characterizations and mechanics that weren't there to begin with just to appease those who can't get over the fact that the game never had that stuff to begin with

Depends. There are cases where removing a bunch of advancements a game series is a good thing (Megaman 9, for instance), and other cases where there's no real reason to remove them because those things helped balance problems that were present in the original game. As far as characterizations go, I don't see how that's a problem unless they throw it in just for the sake of it.

Generally, I don't think you get a free ticket to ignore all the advancements in gaming that have been made, especially if you did it in your own series, unless there's a good reason for it. Otherwise, the developer is just being lazy.
Logged
Aeolus
This is the Monado's Powerbomb!
Posts: 6436


Little did he know, the fall damage would KO him.

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2010, 06:58:57 AM »

Quote
But then again I don't think remakes should add in a bunch of forced characterizations and mechanics that weren't there to begin with just to appease those who can't get over the fact that the game never had that stuff to begin with

Depends. There are cases where removing a bunch of advancements a game series is a good thing (Megaman 9, for instance), and other cases where there's no real reason to remove them because those things helped balance problems that were present in the original game. As far as characterizations go, I don't see how that's a problem unless they throw it in just for the sake of it.

Generally, I don't think you get a free ticket to ignore all the advancements in gaming that have been made, especially if you did it in your own series, unless there's a good reason for it. Otherwise, the developer is just being lazy.

That MM9 example would almost be considered good if it were a remake to begin with instead of an entirely new game nevermind being in a series that had up until its eighth installment been updating almost yearly with questionable mechanic additions in an effort to justify cranking out sequels on a per year basis.

And while I agree that a remake should at least make itself playable for gamers of the 21st century, my point was that overhauling an old game with new mechanics is risky business.

Sword of Mana is a very good example of this. Notice how SD GBA borrowed SD2's Weapon and Magic level system. The primary benefit of these two systems were to speed up the rate of the will gauge's fulfillment for weapons and very slightly increases the effects of a spell as well as providing an extra spirit after meeting certain requirements for magic. The problem with both systems is the fact that you can level any given weapon or element type up to level 99. Something this is ridiculous no matter how you slice it due to the fact that realistically speaking you aren't going to get anything above level 30 without ridiculous amounts of grinding due to the utter shortness of the game. Even if you focus on using that one and only weapon/element of your choice you're only going to get up to level 40-50. Furthermore, trying to focus on only one weapon is entirely ridiculous due to the fact that enemies and obstacles all have different weapon/elemental resistances. And I haven't even gotten to status effects and other bullshit that'll halt your leveling progress stone cold.

And there are all of these side quests and stuff in a game that cuts you off with a point of no return at the Tower of Dime. And all of that extra characterization that got crammed into the game simply amounts to "Screw Mana! The power of Friendship is the greatest force in the universe of everything ever!" and "Poor Dark Lord. If only violence wasn't the only way to solve problems and the plot didn't dictate that you must die then maybe we could've held a bake sale together. Right Willie?" or even "Mr. Lee: Sorry about trying to feast on your still beating heart, but baby, I was only trying to protect you from the real badguy Dark Lord (note: what he meant was that Dark Lord is totally nice and cool but will still try to eviscerate your innards because...well he doesn't mean to and should you kill him then you should feel bad because he is totally nice and cool) in my meatlocker with all those other people I protect from their Dark Lords, or what's left of them anyways."

Anyways tl;dr is to be careful with what you wish for or else you just might get it.

Also I'm pretty certain that you're completely missing the point of remakes. They aren't for you to play old games made new but for people who haven't played the old games to have a chance to play them without having to resort to hunting down the ROM off the internet like you apparently did (unless you would like to explain how you managed to play a game that never left Japan back during the one and only time it has come out). If you change a game too much then why the hell are you restricting yourself with old characters that many don't recognize anymore just for the one or two that are still recognizable.
Logged

In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.
Hathen
Posts: 1964


FORUM IDIOT

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2010, 04:22:40 PM »

You seem to think there's only one category of remakes. There's remakes where everything is made pretty much identical to the original game, flaws and all (Most Final Fantasy remakes, though I guess you would call some of those "ports"), stuff that essentially completely overhauls everything so that adding new things is not an issue (Lufia), and then there's things in between(Aforementioned Sword of Mana).

While overhauling an old game with new mechanics/characterization can lead to disaster, I still find it a better option than simply rereleasing that same old game, unless it's some case where the old game is absurdly rare/expensive (Suikoden 2). Obviously with Sword of Mana the developers had no clue what they were doing- of course, this is the Mana series, it seems par for the course. There are other games such as Shining Force: Resurrection of the Dark Dragon where I didn't feel it pulled the game either way, and games like Maverick Hunter X where I felt like it made the game a lot smoother to play and increased the replay value significantly.

A fast search on ebay led me to find the SNES game for $15, so yeah. For the record, I owned/had owned both a Super Famicom and PlayStation capable of playing import games. I like how you're going this whole route of "you don't understand what remakes are for", when it's obvious that the OP is also one of those people that had to import/ROM hunt for this game since it's only out in Japan at the moment, and lord knows if Atlus will bother bringing this one over. If there was no fan interest in such a game they probably wouldn't remake it to begin with.
Logged
Aeolus
This is the Monado's Powerbomb!
Posts: 6436


Little did he know, the fall damage would KO him.

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2010, 05:47:18 PM »

You seem to think there's only one category of remakes. There's remakes where everything is made pretty much identical to the original game, flaws and all (Most Final Fantasy remakes, though I guess you would call some of those "ports"), stuff that essentially completely overhauls everything so that adding new things is not an issue (Lufia), and then there's things in between(Aforementioned Sword of Mana).

While overhauling an old game with new mechanics/characterization can lead to disaster, I still find it a better option than simply rereleasing that same old game, unless it's some case where the old game is absurdly rare/expensive (Suikoden 2). Obviously with Sword of Mana the developers had no clue what they were doing- of course, this is the Mana series, it seems par for the course. There are other games such as Shining Force: Resurrection of the Dark Dragon where I didn't feel it pulled the game either way, and games like Maverick Hunter X where I felt like it made the game a lot smoother to play and increased the replay value significantly.

Whoa. What post are you reading there champ? I said nothing of the sort. What I said, and I quote...

And while I agree that a remake should at least make itself playable for gamers of the 21st century, my point was that overhauling an old game with new mechanics is risky business.

To reiterate, I have no problem with a game getting updated to allow for more people to play it. Just don't turn the game into something its not for the sake of calling it a remake. Especially for games in series that like to change things up as much as the SRW series does.

I mean, could they add in the part's durability mechanics from the GCN game? Why not make it more like XO? Hell Neo is practically the latest game thus far, and that had radically different gameplay mechanics from the rest of the series. And from what I can tell Neo's gameplay changes were pretty well received. So why shouldn't it adopt Neo's gameplay system? Well, I'll tell you why, its because those aren't The Lord of Elemental. They're spin-offs featuring experimental gameplay and TLoE gameplay isn't based on card games or has that thing that those Front Mission games use or whatever the hell Neo uses (I picked it namely due to the fact that the units in that game were all supers instead of reals).

Your two new examples did what I was suggesting. Shining Force: RotDD gave you a few extra characters to work with as well as a few epilogue chapters to use them in and a few miscellaneous stuffs like NG+, cards as both a sidequest and for a weapon for a new character, and alternate costumes for the less furry looking chicks (i.e. not centaurs). Whereas Irregular Hunter X retconned the story (for the better half of the series no less), moved the graphics into 2.5D, and also gave you a new character to play around with. Of the two though only IHX made any real changes to the events of the game (namely due to the clusterfuck that the series devolved into due to the PSX era games and on how light the events were in MMXs 2 & 3) but in either case they didn't really change the core of the gameplay or plot. Zero still dies in IHX and RotDD still has whatever boring plot Camelot shoved in there but now with three extra gaiden chapters to give the new characters some screen time. Either way they both fall into what I would consider remakes (and just how the hell did IHX feel smoother compared to MMX?).

Two things that I should clarify though is that, a) what I said in my first post was in reference to games that go too far in altering the core of the game that the game no longer resembles what it originally was (and yes I was a bit too broad and vague with my complaints of remakes), and b) I consider cases like Lufia II to be more of a reimagining than a remake (especially since they're keeping the source material that made the original so great to begin with (although from what I've heard it hasn't done too well for itself in Japan)).


A fast search on ebay led me to find the SNES game for $15, so yeah. For the record, I owned/had owned both a Super Famicom and PlayStation capable of playing import games. I like how you're going this whole route of "you don't understand what remakes are for", when it's obvious that the OP is also one of those people that had to import/ROM hunt for this game since it's only out in Japan at the moment, and lord knows if Atlus will bother bringing this one over. If there was no fan interest in such a game they probably wouldn't remake it to begin with.

Two things about this.

First, buying or downloading a game years after it came out doesn't do a damn thing for the developer/publisher except in cases like the VC.

And second, we're talking about a game that came out nearly 15 years ago. Maybe a new generation of games sprang up during the intervening years. You know the kind with money. Also other countries have players that never even heard of an SRW game before except in passing that may have a craving for just this kind of game. My point is that remakes aren't just for people who have already played the original. Other people might be interested in a remake as well.

Hell, just look at me and that Growlanser remake. I COULD import or download the original game but then only I and maybe the previous owner of the copy that I purchased it from would benefit from the transaction (and not the company that made the game thus not knowing that someone out here wants to get into the series), or I could import the remake (especially now that its hit 'The Best' status in Japan) but its expensive as hell for me to do that (as most of the costs would go into the s/h of the package). Basically I want to support the series out here in the west, but I'm too poor/lazy to import or download the rom of it instead.


Anyways this has turned into a clusterfuck of a post so I might as well post what I have now and let you pick out the fallacies so that I can correct them later.
Logged

In my vision, I see that one of us is going to KO the other.
Hathen
Posts: 1964


FORUM IDIOT

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2010, 02:52:00 AM »

Quote
what I said in my first post was in reference to games that go too far in altering the core of the game that the game no longer resembles what it originally was (and yes I was a bit too broad and vague with my complaints of remakes)

Ah, okay. I was more under the impression you were giving a purist argument of sorts, like the only thing that really needs updating is the interface of older games so they're more accessible. When I think of remakes that really should've had some more features from future installments, I always think of FEDS. While the core gameplay was the same, I disliked what was basically a complete removal of support conversations (Which was pretty much the only reason I ever replayed FE games after beating it twice or three times, based on number of difficulty settings and what have you), removal of certain classes/ability to promote thieves, that sort of thing. I think in some cases, new features that makes their way into game series should never be removed, even in remakes of older games.

More on topic, the earlier Super Robot Wars games didn't allow you to upgrade weapons, for example. I think such a feature would need to be added if they remade said games today (Well, they're not going to obviously, who wants to play a game with only Gundams, Mazingers and Getters anymore, heh), even though the original game was designed with no weapon upgrades in mind.

Quote
and just how the hell did IHX feel smoother compared to MMX?

Just more of something I felt, personally. Switching between IHX and MMX, it's obvious that the SNES game felt a tad stiffer and slower. Some may complain that the IHX controls are "slippery", but I felt that control scheme better fits with how I play.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!