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Author Topic: Things you can’t bear in RPGs  (Read 36963 times)
blackthirteen
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« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2006, 04:07:34 PM »

currently playing Digital Devil Saga. Overall, the game is awesome.

but I can't bear random encounter in this game! The frequency is too high.
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Akanbe-
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« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2006, 06:17:29 PM »

I used to think DDS had high random encounters.  Then I played a lot of Suikoden 5 and DDS felt like a walk in the park.

Lately one thing has been bugging me:

Reappearing bosses.  What I mean is people you defeat but they show up again later.  For God's sake kill him.  If there's a reason it doesn't happen, I can let that slide.
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« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2006, 08:46:29 PM »

1. A battle that player can actually wins, but player still have to lost.
2. Annoying Characters who's enemies at first but later on joined as Party member.
3. Boring Dungeons.
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Spoony Mage
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« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2006, 03:10:45 AM »

Concerning the "teenage protagonist" problem: Think of most of the popular anime coming out of Japan.  What do a lot of them involve?  Schoolkids going through all kinds of issues.  And the audience just eats it up, regardless of the age bracket.  So of course, most video games will go for the lowest common denominator when it comes to plot and characters.  that's why we still have little girls with annoyingly high voices running around killing things.

Oh yes, that's one thing that annoys me.  Characters (main or otherwise) that have to be as exhuberant and obnoxious as humanly possible in an effort to sound "cute" or "passionate".  And that concerns both english and japanese voice overs.

Romantic <insert geometrical nightmare here> - Don't get me wrong, I like a romantic ploy in an RPG.  But when you get the typical "mother hen vs. every other female" thing, I tend to want to shoot things.  Atelier Iris' Lita annoyed me to no end regarding that, especially since she then tried to play it off like she wasn't interested in Klein.    

One thing I applaud Skies of Arcadia for NOT doing is pitting Aika vs. Fina for Vyse's affection.  Yeah, there were signs that both girls were interested in him, but there were bigger things at stake than shagging the guy.  This is one of the things that worries me concerning Wild Arms: Vth Vanguard, since it has a similar setup with its main characters (main character/childhood friend/mysterious girl).  

Another triangle I think was handled well was Grandia II's Ryudo/Elena/Millenia.  Nothing beats a schizophrenic priestess being possessed by a psychotic demonic redhead.

I also admit to getting weary of the whole "weak healer/magic user female" thing.  Those types always seems to get the soft, submissive personalities.  I want a pyromaniacal psychoslut with homicidal tendencies, dammit!  One who can wield both powerful magic and powerful weapons!  I haven't played much of Dragon Quest VIII, but Jessica is a good start I think.

And I'm also sick of the "giant, 30-story tall alien blob as the final boss" shit.  There are things far scarier than that these days.  If J. Edgar Hoover is trying to destroy the world, then I want to kill J. Edgar Hoover and be done with it, not have to move on to fight the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.

And crappy music.  I can handle long dungeons, tedious battles, and monotonous minigames as long as the accompanying music is a good listen.  Crappy music makes playing even the good games tedious. at times.  Shadow Hearts; Covenant is a big offender there...fucking Idar Flamme and it's wannabe "scary movie" music...

I'll shut up now.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2006, 10:14:36 AM »

In most any genre, romance is really tough to write and direct well.  Even in the love adventure genre, you have games like Hourglass of Summer and Never 7 that do romance extremely well and you also have games like Ai Yori Aoshi that are godawful.  

Even in movies, the romantic scenes in Star Wars Ep. 2: Clones could, and should, have been the strongest scenes in the movie but they were horrid due to the cracker-thin dialogue and the fact that George Lucas' directorial skills are horribly lacking.  

And even among romance novels, I'm sure there are those that are written well and others that are cheesier than a stinky brie.

EDIT: And Spoony Mage- that's one reason I liked Veola so much.  Whenever Lita had one of her annoying episodes, Veola's dry wit always put Lita in her place.

And +1 for those who mentioned that Tales of Symphonia's female characters are mostly melee characters.  Genis and Raine are the only mages, but that's due to their species rather than gender.  Sheena, Colette, and Presea are all melee characters.
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« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2006, 05:19:37 PM »

This is going to make me sound horribly religious, but I'm really sick of storylines that make 'God' your enemy. FFT did it, FFX did it, to an extent Breath of Fire 3 did it, etc. Somehow, the supposedly benevolent deity who's watching over your world is in fact trying to fucking murder you and everyone you love.

Now mind you, this is almost an exclusively JRPG phenomenon, largely due to the fact that we'd have religious groups up in arms over here if it was a domestic North American developer. But in Japan, Christianity is an extreme minority religion, and due to causing political and social trouble in the 1500's-1600's, came under persecution quite often, to the point of being banned until the modern day.

That explains part of the idea, as well as the social background with the Japanese. For Shinto and Buddhist followers, the idea of a 'supreme God' isn't really an absolute. Shinto tend to regard Ameterasu as the central heavenly authority, but she isn't seen as a complete 'Almighty'. That's strictly a Christian concept to the Japanese, and so for them, it's more permissible.

Now mind you, that said, my actual objection is not religious. It's moreso that this treatment of the deity figure runs into not only metaphysical problems (how DO you fight a god? There's a huge question), but also literary shortcomings. It's extremely easy to demonise a religious concept your society is generally opposed to or ignorant of. And it's also easy to rebel against authority figures and make them out worse than they really are. It's such an easy literary trope, which is why it doesn't surprise me that so many developers use it.

But it totally sucks.

Keeping in line with what Spoony Mage was on about, these figures are almost always the final 'generic evil blob rar grar evil evil' crap you fight at the end. Even if they have a heavy involvement in the plot (Ajora, Yevon, etc), they aren't typically anything especially unique. Someone like Seymour (stupid physical design aside) is more interesting to me as a villain than Yevon is. The same applies to Krelian in Xenogears, or Oni-ou in Sakura Taisen 2 (though few of us have played that one), largely because they actually bear pathos in the story. I think in fact games like FFVI and VII handled the final battle concept well: Take on the main guy you've been after the whole game, in exceedingly monstrous forms. You fulfil two major player requirements this way: An epic final battle, and getting to finally slug the main villain and put him in his place.
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Alisha
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« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2006, 07:48:00 PM »

pussy females characters and awesome female characters that fall in love with a guy just because he saved her life.... god damn radiata stories and wild arms 4
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daschrier
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« Reply #52 on: August 31, 2006, 08:55:26 AM »

Hey, Ridley was cool, and she was more badass than Jack was!
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Alisha
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« Reply #53 on: August 31, 2006, 09:11:12 AM »

thats my point.she starts the game awesome and becomes increasingly more stupid and whiny as the story progresses.i loved how she made fun of jack all the time.and whats with jack's sister sucking so bad? WTF? she taught jack how to fight... and she fights with slaps....very disapointing especially from tri-ace a company that seems to like it's strong female characters.then again VP:S looks pretty shitty too half the female characters are archers and they pull a dbz at the end of the game =/
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daschrier
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« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2006, 09:18:11 AM »

Well, you can argue it's not her fault since
Code:
she was possessed by an elf spirit
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Merkava
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« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2006, 11:11:28 AM »

You know, going back to romances in RPG's, why does the love always have to be mutual? I think it would be 10 times more interesting if one of the characters was oblivious or just didn't feel the same way about the other character. It could create a nice tension and a whole slew of opportunities to exploit that dynamic.

I'm also sick and tired of the "nice, shy guy" characters. In real life, that fucker would find himself constantly in the friend zone. In the world of RPG's, he gets some serious female attention. Sure it gave me hope at one point, but I'm tired of seeing myself in these situations in games. How about a main character who IS trying to bed one of his female battle partners? A lot of times, it seems like it's the female that works the hardest in the relationship, prompting the main character to experience a "revelation" by the end of the game. Lame.
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Spoony Mage
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« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2006, 01:01:28 PM »

Hidoshi: Wholeheartedly agree about the "God is the Ultimate Evil" crap.  Now that I think about it, that sort of thing has been around since probably the Nintendo vs. Sega days (Breath of Fire 2 comes to mind).  Still, that's why I love characters like Kefka (FFVI) and Ramirez (Skies of Arcadia).  The final boss battles with them were so satisfying.

Quote
And +1 for those who mentioned that Tales of Symphonia's female characters are mostly melee characters. Genis and Raine are the only mages, but that's due to their species rather than gender. Sheena, Colette, and Presea are all melee characters.

The only other Tales game I can think of that has more melee females in it is  Tales of Destiny (Rutee/Mary/Philia/Lilith).  I haven't played the ones that are stuck in Japan, though, like the real ToD2.
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« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2006, 02:12:57 PM »

The only real flaw of Japanese RPGs is the whole "save the world" thing. It's getting tired and I at least expect a twist in the plot, but nooo. Just the good guys, beating the bad guys, that's it. That's why I never liked Tales of Symphonia's plot all that much, especially all the cliched twists.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2006, 03:44:16 PM »

...There's always Revelations: Persona (Megami Ibunroku Persona) where you're not saving the world but rather saving people from themselves.

I don't know if these annoyances have been mentioned yet and I'm too lazy to read the whole thread, but it's definitely annoying when there are random encounters in puzzle rooms.  When I'm trying to solve a puzzle and get into an encounter, it just destroys my concentration.  

I'm also not fond of when there are puzzles without any hints to go along with them.  Wild Arms 1 comes to mind where I remember this one puzzle.  No hints in the dungeon as to how to solve it and no hints in the puzzle room itself either.  So out of sheer frustration I just had Rudy (or was it Jack?) drop bombs all over the place so I could see things go boom.  Lo and behold, the puzzle was solved!  

At least RPG puzzles (usually) don't have the pinpoint pixel hunting and ridiculous leaps of logic that graphic adventure puzzles tend to have.
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Bogatyr
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« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2006, 08:37:03 PM »

I agree with these points, Dincrest. But the clueless puzzle problem that I had in WA was the chest one, in the last part of the game.
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