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Subject: Persona 3: FES
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Date: 3rd October 2014 Time: 16:00 EST
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Author Topic: Things you can’t bear in RPGs  (Read 35798 times)
Ryos
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« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2006, 12:31:28 AM »

Since no one else pointed it out much (for shame), I, as always, hate the romance cliche in RPGs.  It seems like in every game some putz in the party has to fall in love with someone else in the party.  Now I don't mind a romance when it, you know, makes sense and actually has a purpose in the game, but more often than not this is some pathetic, "Hay!  Yer cute!  Will u be my girlfriend?  Lol."  "Yes!  Teehee!"  Just because you go venture with someone of the opposite gender doesn't mean you have to go for her in the sack.  Geez.  

And just because it deserves to be reiterated, female characters that aren't pathetic damsels in distress who are healers/casters are far too infrequent.

I also think that a (gasp) adult RPG protagonist would be an interesting idea out of the norm.  If I saw a console-style RPG with say a 40 year old man or woman as the main protagonist, that'd be crazily unique (and yes, Anachronox is one such game, though I can't really recall just how old Sly is :p).
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Marona
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« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2006, 03:13:31 AM »

Quote from: "Ryos"
I also think that a (gasp) adult RPG protagonist would be an interesting idea out of the norm.  If I saw a console-style RPG with say a 40 year old man or woman as the main protagonist, that'd be crazily unique (and yes, Anachronox is one such game, though I can't really recall just how old Sly is :p).


Theres always Mario from super mario RPG!
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blackthirteen
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« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2006, 05:20:16 AM »

Back then Final Fantasy used older main characters. I'm not exactly sure, but I think Cecil from FFIV looked approximately 30 years old. Kain looked old too.

Shadow Hearts 1 & 2, Xenogear & Xenosaga have mature characters.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2006, 09:08:28 AM »

PC RPGs tend to utilize more adult characters and storylines.  It's just that console RPGs have more appealing gameplay interfaces for us:P

Persona 2: Eternal Punishment uses young adult characters (aged from 21-32) who struggle with adult issues and have adult dialogue.  Heck, even the teenagers in Persona 2: Innocent Sin have mature and insightful dialogue, so they don't seem like chickenheads like many teens in cookie-cutter RPGs.
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John
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« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2006, 01:26:06 PM »

Games that don't let you shoot enemies in the crotch for a damage bonus.

-John
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Eusis
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« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2006, 02:52:32 PM »

I'm kinda baffled by the whole 'stick with young teenagers' for RPGs thing. They've been around for a long long time and people in Japan seem to love them, why aren't there more older casts aiming towards the older players? Is it because that even if they like them, they don't have the time to play them so they're not a viable market? Or that it's easier to sell a young character than an old character for whatever reason? I wouldn't be wondering this if it weren't for the fact 99% of RPGs do this kinda crap.

Meh. :P
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Dice
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« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2006, 03:15:01 PM »

Quote from: "Dincrest"
PC RPGs tend to utilize more adult characters and storylines.  It's just that console RPGs have more appealing gameplay interfaces for us:P

Persona 2: Eternal Punishment uses young adult characters (aged from 21-32) who struggle with adult issues and have adult dialogue.  Heck, even the teenagers in Persona 2: Innocent Sin have mature and insightful dialogue, so they don't seem like chickenheads like many teens in cookie-cutter RPGs.


Along with this and what Eusis said.
Im really getting tired of young cast, paird with really really cheesy dialogue.
I get embarassed turning on voices sometimes, especially when they start blurting out crap about their "fate" or "destinies" and "friendship"'s; or whatever the theme of the game is (WA4 child+adult struggles became too frequent).  Its sounds like a preach to the wrong audeince.

I think games could try to be a bit more older teen oriented at least, Persona (and similar series') was an excellent example.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2006, 03:34:36 PM »

Good point Eusis.  For most people, the video game console is still seen as a toy, despite the fact that all of us who grew up with 8-bit Nintendo as kids are now in our 20s or 30s and do want more maturity in our console gaming, and by maturity I DON'T mean ultra-violence, gratuitous sleaze, or whatever else deemed "mature" in GTA or Conker.  

The PC platform typicaly does appeal to a more mature demographic, because people of all ages use PCs.  Even people in their 50s and 60s play computer games, even if they are simple games like solitaire or tetris while they're taking a break from work.  

The European graphic adventure developers like Microids have titles like Syberia and Still Life which feature female protagonists in their early 30s.  The games wouldn't work without protagonists like that, since the storylines are based around their professions.  Kate in Syberia is an attorney and Victoria in Still Life is a forensics agent.  

In other words, all I'm saying is that though we may be tired of kiddie heroes in RPGs, there are alternatives for story-intensive games featuring more adult characters, plotlines, and themes.  They may not be of the RPG genre, but they are out there.
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blackthirteen
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« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2006, 07:40:01 PM »

For my part teenage heroes doesnít really bother. Iím still very young in my heart :D It always depends the way they are exploited in the context of a game.

In my opinion Cloud and Squall were great adolescent protagonists and were used in a mature way in the context of the game.

The types of young heroes that donít catch my attention are the ones from games like Tales of Symphonia or Grandia III. But those games are certainly designed to target a younger audience so they fit the context.
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Eusis
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« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2006, 07:50:55 PM »

Actually, as I seem to recall it Cloud was in his twenties - 21 if I'm remembering right. He was only an adolocent during his days in the military. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's the last FF to have had an adult main character. You're right though, the way they're used is more important than their actual age, but it's just very, very unusual to me when DQ1 started the japanese RPG back in... 1987 I believe. It's been nearly 20 years since then, and we're still with teenage heroes. Do most of the players from way back then prefer to be 'young at heart', or are the developers just that resistant to changing their stories? :P

Though I'll admit, it seems the older teenager character is better for the 'going on an adventure' tale than someone who's older. But I don't see why a hero in their early 20's wouldn't be just as good.
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Ryos
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« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2006, 08:04:03 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most video game players still in the youth bracket?  Thus it'd be more logical to stick with the very tired teenager hero model, since most of your players will be from that portion, so you're trying to sell to that market and what better way to do so than with characters roughly their age?  There's still that sort of assumption that games are for kids and that when you get to be an adult, you're going to move on to other things like...um...something.
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« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2006, 08:07:38 PM »

The average video game player is estimated to be 25-30 years of age.

-John
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blackthirteen
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« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2006, 08:31:24 PM »

Quote from: "Eusis"
Actually, as I seem to recall it Cloud was in his twenties - 21 if I'm remembering right. He was only an adolocent during his days in the military. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's the last FF to have had an adult main character. You're right though, the way they're used is more important than their actual age, but it's just very, very unusual to me when DQ1 started the japanese RPG back in... 1987 I believe. It's been nearly 20 years since then, and we're still with teenage heroes. Do most of the players from way back then prefer to be 'young at heart', or are the developers just that resistant to changing their stories? :P

Though I'll admit, it seems the older teenager character is better for the 'going on an adventure' tale than someone who's older. But I don't see why a hero in their early 20's wouldn't be just as good.


Well then if we think carefully about it there are not that many RPGs using young teenagers as lead. Theyíre simply looking young and healthy, that's all :)

Quote from: "KeeperX"
The average video game player is estimated to be 25-30 years of age.

-John


Heh we should draw a list of all the RPGs wilt all the main characters, this way weíll know if teenage characters are really invading RPGs.

Here are popular heroes that are certainly above 20;

Cloud from FFVII (now that you're mentioning it, he wasnít a teenager)
Squall from FFVIII (heís looking at the end of his teenage period to me)
Tidus from FFX
Yuri from Shadow Hearts
Fei from Xenogear
Shion from Xenosaga, a woman protagonist
Aya from Parasite Eve
Ash from Vagrant Story
Valkyrie from Valkyrie Profile, it was a woman protagonist
Digital Devil Saga, I never played it but the heroes seemed to be mature.
Calintz from Magna Carta, a virile travesty above all :P

In a strange way, a lot of silent protagonists are actually teenagers;

Crono from Chrono Trigger.
Serge from Chrono Cross.
Hero from Breath of Fire 3 (and probably the other episode of the series, I donít remember)
Main hero from Dragon Quest VIII
Main hero from Suikoden
Hero from Dark Cloud

The other young characters are from series like ďTales ofĒ or Grandia, or very manga-ish games.

Anyway I think too it would be nice to have a old protagonist someday.
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Merkava
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« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2006, 08:49:46 PM »

Oh man, DDS had such great characters (sans Cielo). The plot and characters were so good; too bad there wasn't enough given to me.

Besides that, I <3 SMT
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Tridius
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« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2006, 07:39:00 PM »

Quote from: "Dincrest"
Trid- I think it's a universal truth that in any video game, RPG or otherwise, the desert is always the most annoying dungeon/stage.  For me the worst desert had to be the one in Stupid Invaders.  Every screen looked exactly the same and you had to do them in a certain order to get to where you needed to go, or you'd die.  And there were NO HINTS for navigation as far as I could find.  I had to use a FAQ for it and I have no clue how the FAQ writer figured it out.



You are pretty much right about that.
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