RPGFan Podcast (Random Encounter) Thread

[Taelus]

I loved everything about Heavy Rain other than the cheap cut in the clock shop and the true identity of the killer.

[dyeager]

Really, you like Heavy Rain, Crispy?  I think you need to go back and listen to one of our older episodes.  I simply don't have the space to go into how fucking awful that piece of pretentious shit is. 

All kidding aside, Heavy Rain tries really hard to do some cool things.  I personally think it fails miserably at just about all of them (how it handles Madison sexuality/vulnerability, the giant freakin' plot holes, generally awful narrative, piss poor acting, etc.) but I think Thomas Wayne said it best when it comes to these things. 

Eh, I'm not saying its far and away my favorite game, but I thought it did a very good job of creating tension. For instance, I'm really claustrophobic, so the crawling through the tunnel scene (besides the plot hole of him not pushing the glass aside like a normal person would) freaked me out. I don't think I've ever said "Oh HELL no!" out loud to myself that many times.

But hey, maybe I'm confusing story-induced stress with QTE-induced stress.

I thought it did a great job of this too. Some of the story problems are fair but I really don't see them as worse than the average game or even movie frankly. I thought a couple of the scenes were actually quite moving. It's also the only game my wife actually demanded I play to see what would happen next.

[Taelus]

Really, you like Heavy Rain, Crispy?  I think you need to go back and listen to one of our older episodes.  I simply don't have the space to go into how fucking awful that piece of pretentious shit is. 

All kidding aside, Heavy Rain tries really hard to do some cool things.  I personally think it fails miserably at just about all of them (how it handles Madison sexuality/vulnerability, the giant freakin' plot holes, generally awful narrative, piss poor acting, etc.) but I think Thomas Wayne said it best when it comes to these things. 

Eh, I'm not saying its far and away my favorite game, but I thought it did a very good job of creating tension. For instance, I'm really claustrophobic, so the crawling through the tunnel scene (besides the plot hole of him not pushing the glass aside like a normal person would) freaked me out. I don't think I've ever said "Oh HELL no!" out loud to myself that many times.

But hey, maybe I'm confusing story-induced stress with QTE-induced stress.

I thought it did a great job of this too. Some of the story problems are fair but I really don't see them as worse than the average game or even movie frankly. I thought a couple of the scenes were actually quite moving. It's also the only game my wife actually demanded I play to see what would happen next.

Yeah, the Tunnel scene and the saw scene were unbelievably tense. My roommates were watching when I did the saw scene and we were all like 'AIEEE'

[WhiteAndCrispy]

I loved everything about Heavy Rain other than the cheap cut in the clock shop and the true identity of the killer.

I gotta agree with this. I was convincing myself that the reveal would be awesome and mind-blowing the whole game, (and some of the stuff was pretty cool,  like playing as the kids and the scene in his office) but it was busted for me when I figured it out way too early. What gives it away for me is when Norman fights the killer in the club, while the killer is masked, there's only one character you've met so far that has a freaking pot belly.

[PaleRobbie]

So David Cage did this today:
http://kotaku.com/5982205/its-time-for-video-games-to-finally-grow-up-by-doing-these-nine-things

Honestly, I can't stand this asshole.  Nearly every point he makes is contradicted in the one title he's released in nearly ten years of development.  David Cage may claim to push the genre forward and I understand the points he's trying to make, but he comes across like a failed film major who was forced to make video games and will forever resent it.  How can he argue these points when Heavy Rain violates nearly every one of them (rape scene, Madison's boobs, tons of violence, horrible storytelling that would be laughed out of any film class for lacking the basics of mise-en-scene, etc.)?  I'm sick of people listening to this no talent assclown.  

[WhiteAndCrispy]

So David Cage did this today:
http://kotaku.com/5982205/its-time-for-video-games-to-finally-grow-up-by-doing-these-nine-things

Honestly, I can't stand this asshole.  Nearly every point he makes is contradicted in the one title he's released in nearly ten years of development.  David Cage may claim to push the genre forward and I understand the points he's trying to make, but he comes across like a failed film major who was forced to make video games and will forever resent it.  How can he argue these points when Heavy Rain violates nearly every one of them (rape scene, Madison's boobs, tons of violence, horrible storytelling that would be laughed out of any film class for lacking the basics of mise-en-scene, etc.)?  I'm sick of people listening to this no talent assclown.  

Ok, yeah. This one pissed me off:


 "4. Become accessible: Let's focus on minds, not on thumbs!" He wants games to focus on the thoughts and decisions of players, not on how fast or skilled they are at manipulating a controller.

I'm not sure how to take this seriously, since Heavy Rain is "Get good at QTE or EVERYONE DIES: The Game".

[dyeager]

So David Cage did this today:
http://kotaku.com/5982205/its-time-for-video-games-to-finally-grow-up-by-doing-these-nine-things

Honestly, I can't stand this asshole.  Nearly every point he makes is contradicted in the one title he's released in nearly ten years of development.  David Cage may claim to push the genre forward and I understand the points he's trying to make, but he comes across like a failed film major who was forced to make video games and will forever resent it.  How can he argue these points when Heavy Rain violates nearly every one of them (rape scene, Madison's boobs, tons of violence, horrible storytelling that would be laughed out of any film class for lacking the basics of mise-en-scene, etc.)?  I'm sick of people listening to this no talent assclown.  

Heavy Rain is not just David Cage. I know it's easier to just say "LOL Cage", but these things are more complex than that.

It would be nice if more video games explored nuance, but even more important than that what video game DISCUSSION needs is nuance.

[dyeager]

Also, could it be possible that Cage knows he is complicit in this issue he discusses? He was pretty forthright about the failings of his previous games, including Heavy Rain, vs what he originally envisioned for them.

He may be an ass hat but I guess I am not certain that just that link adds evidence to that.

[PaleRobbie]

Good points all around, Dave.  I think Cage wants the medium to move forward, but he blatantly disregards current trends in the industry or flat out refuses to admit that other types of games exist outside of violent action games and kiddie stuff.  And quite frankly, his nine main points could all be argued back and forth with counterarguments that prove this isn't a cut and dry issue.  He says things like, "Games need to be more adult" or, "Most games have protagonists with guns" and never acknowledges the merits of either.  I'm playing Spec Ops: The Line right now, and that is a violent action game that is trying to say something about war and its effects on soldiers.  While Spec Ops may not succeed at everything it tries to do (much like Heavy Rain), I'm glad it exists and I think it shows that the medium is trying to move forward.  And David Cage hasn't really done enough to push the medium forward with his two titles to start telling the industry what to do.  This is the equivalent of Uwe Boll telling Hollywood what to do (Okay, maybe that's a little harsh.  More like JJ Abrams telling Spielberg what to do). 

I will 100% agree with Cage that gamers need to vote with their wallets.  This is the reason I'm not buying Dead Space 3 and I plant on buying Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs at full price in the summer. 

[Taelus]

I will be making both of those same purchasing decisions, Rob.

Also, I have to agree with Dave-- Cage can make these points while still admitting to complicity. And the fact is, his team's games ARE different from just about everything else released, so whether he's failed to deliver or not (and I seriously enjoyed BOTH of their games), he IS doing something different from most developers.

[dyeager]

Good points all around, Dave.  I think Cage wants the medium to move forward, but he blatantly disregards current trends in the industry or flat out refuses to admit that other types of games exist outside of violent action games and kiddie stuff.  And quite frankly, his nine main points could all be argued back and forth with counterarguments that prove this isn't a cut and dry issue.  He says things like, "Games need to be more adult" or, "Most games have protagonists with guns" and never acknowledges the merits of either.  I'm playing Spec Ops: The Line right now, and that is a violent action game that is trying to say something about war and its effects on soldiers.  While Spec Ops may not succeed at everything it tries to do (much like Heavy Rain), I'm glad it exists and I think it shows that the medium is trying to move forward.  And David Cage hasn't really done enough to push the medium forward with his two titles to start telling the industry what to do.  This is the equivalent of Uwe Boll telling Hollywood what to do (Okay, maybe that's a little harsh.  More like JJ Abrams telling Spielberg what to do). 

I will 100% agree with Cage that gamers need to vote with their wallets.  This is the reason I'm not buying Dead Space 3 and I plant on buying Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs at full price in the summer. 

Really really good points Rob. Would Cage like Dark Souls or Torchlight 2? From this article it seems he might not but I can't tell.

I just think we need to be careful distinguishing between the messenger and the message. More interesting to me is whether the message here is flawed. We already know Cage is. He readily admits it himself.

[PaleRobbie]

Episode 57 will launch later on today (Sunday).  And a big "Thank you" to Annubis for catching my giant mistake on the last episode!

[Daedalus]

I desperately want the industry to take a step forward but I believe there are many ways to do that.  I want my games to tell me a story.  A good, well thought out story.  If that story involves a man with a gun I don't have a problem with it, why does he have the gun?  What is it that drives him to pick up the gun?  I want stories that push the boundaries and try new things.  I want character development over action set pieces.  I enjoyed Enslaved because it had a story to tell, so did Prince of Persia(Sands of Time and the cell shaded reboot).  Regardless of what you think of the actual games, they did go out and attempted to be different.  Red Dead Redemption also comes to mind(ending in particular relating to his son).  Sorry I'm not listing rpgs but you can see what I am saying at least. 

It's the mindless games that cater to the COD audience that I want to go away or at least stop being such a cash cow.  Those games kill innovation.

[Annubis]

cash cow

Can't blame the industry if people buy it.

[Monsoon]

Dragon's Dogma expansion is EXACTLY like the G versions of every Monster Hutner game.  Almost every Monster Hunter game in Japan has an expanded version come out a year or two later with G added to the title.  MH Freedom Unite is MH Portable 2nd G; MH Tri Ultimate is MH Tri G, etc.  You guys were right on during the podcast - it's a move to draw in new players and to sate existing mega-fans hungry for more. 

So while it seems like a cash grab, and people will complain, it's 100% in line with Capcom's Monster Hunter strategy and a slightly better deal than the recent shenanigans with Marvel vs. Capcom 3 or Street Fighter X Tekken (neither of whose second editions I support).  Plus, players of the original Dragon's Dogma get several in-game bonuses in Dark Arisen, including several thousand extra crystals and a bunch of free armors.  I never played Dragon's Dogma (despite being a Monster Hunter fanatic), but I'm kinda interested in Dark Arisen.