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Author Topic: Chasing the RPG Dragon  (Read 3365 times)
Darilon
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« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2010, 01:50:59 PM »

This has kind of happened to me. Generally I prefer charm over realism so it is a bit more difficult for me to get into a lot of current gen games. Usually I do not play anything for a while and then when I read a review online or some book, I get an urge to play a specific game.

Lately I have noticed I have stopped speaking to NPCs in most games (I mean just normal npcs, not npcs with a purpose like Persona 4). There are some games where I still speak to a lot if not all but with most games I end up ignoring them.

Usually I have quite a unique taste in games. What I enjoy others may find average or outright despise. Part of it has to do with hype. If some game is acclaimed to be the best thing since sliced bread I am usually critical of it whereas if a game gets poor reviews I find myself more lenient to its flaws.
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Kstar
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« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2010, 04:42:07 PM »

This has kind of happened to me. Generally I prefer charm over realism so it is a bit more difficult for me to get into a lot of current gen games.

This brings up a good point.  A while back games lacked realism then fans started inquiring about having more realistic situations in games.  It changed things a bit and sometimes it's not always for the better.  I talked about this in my Fragile review, mainly with the breakable weapons.  I'm just not a fan of things like this being changed to make a game more realistic.  When I play games it's to get away from reality.  I want my fantasy world :-)  It's like watching kids movies, you know it's impossible for certain things to happen, but for a moment you want to suspend reality and believe it's possible.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2010, 06:18:21 PM »

Weapon breakage is interesting. Weapon breakage is mostly analogous to, say, weapons having ammo in an FPS. The reason for ammo in an FPS is to prevent the player from spamming the Best Weapon infinitely, which is why the BFG in Quake 3/Redeemer in UT doesn't have a lot of ammo.

Here's where things get interesting. Going back to Q3 and UT, outside of the super weapons, there's no real clear *best* weapon in a lot of cases. It's very situational, and a lot of it is just how good the player is at using said weapons anyway. Also, being arena-shooters, it's important, for balance sake, that weapons be sort of on equal footing in a general sense but vary widely in usefulness situationally.

So. This doesn't really work for RPGs, or at least JRPGs. Why? Weapons in JRPGs don't really have interesting uses. A bastard sword, a crystal dragon sword, and a long sword are just three flavors of the same basic thing. Sure, there'll be different degrees of attack strength, but generally, it's a linear progression and you don't have a lot of need to use one instead of the other.

So I think this is less an issue of realism -- it's not really that realistic, anyway -- and more of an issue in that it exposes an underlying weakness in how weapons aren't used interestingly in JRPGs anyway.
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Kevadu
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« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2010, 07:05:25 PM »

So I think this is less an issue of realism -- it's not really that realistic, anyway -- and more of an issue in that it exposes an underlying weakness in how weapons aren't used interestingly in JRPGs anyway.

I think you can remove the 'J' there.  I can't think of any WRPGs with interesting weapons differences either.  Going back to D&D it's the same deal (well, OK...really high level magic weapons can have interesting abilities).
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« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2010, 07:50:46 PM »

I don't know how you choose to categorize it, but a while back, I played Phantasy Star Portable, and I was pretty impressed with just how different the weapons actually felt.  In my second opinion review, I said "In many games, one gun feels like another gun, and one sword feels like another sword. Not this one. Claws feel entirely different from fists, which are completely different from daggers, etc."

Just thought I'd mention the one GOOD example I can think of in that respect.
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« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2010, 08:17:29 PM »

And once again, I plug the 2007 Roundtable discussion about WRPGs and JRPGs.  

http://www.rpgfan.com/features/roundtable2007/index.html

As for breakable/limited use weapons, I do not like that feature at all.  But go figure, I was cool with it in Hexyz Force.  I really enjoyed that game.  

I wonder if "chasing the ghost" and feeling empty about it may have something to do with RPG burnout.  Maybe one thing to do is to completely take a break from RPGs or gaming in general for 2-4 weeks.  Use your allotted gaming time to do something else like ride a bike, learn a new recipe, do some tai chi, pick up that guitar you haven't played in a while, etc.  And then you'll come back to gaming with a newfound craving vigor and a cooler, clearer, more objective head to properly chase the ghose.
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« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2010, 08:43:09 PM »

I don't know how you choose to categorize it, but a while back, I played Phantasy Star Portable, and I was pretty impressed with just how different the weapons actually felt.  In my second opinion review, I said "In many games, one gun feels like another gun, and one sword feels like another sword. Not this one. Claws feel entirely different from fists, which are completely different from daggers, etc."

Just thought I'd mention the one GOOD example I can think of in that respect.

I agree with you on that, especially in terms of guns since it has a bunch of weird gun "classes" or types that all feel unique
and since we're talking about breakable weapons, I haaaaaate items that go bad or decrease in effectiveness at a certain point of keeping them.
also I haaaaate extremely limited inventories that only let me keep a few things at once.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2010, 09:30:54 PM »

Tooker: Does every claw feel like every other claw though, assuming you have multiple kinds of claws?
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« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2010, 01:33:24 AM »

Yeah, if you bought better claws, I think they'd feel essentially just like your old claws... but wielding claws is totally different from a sword, from dual sabers (I think there's something like that), from whips, from fists, from etc.  In Diablo II, a dagger felt like a sword felt like a mace felt like a wooden leg.  The only difference was in how quickly you could swing them.  In Phantasy Star, that's definitely not the case.
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« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2010, 12:49:10 PM »

Weapon breakage is interesting. Weapon breakage is mostly analogous to, say, weapons having ammo in an FPS. The reason for ammo in an FPS is to prevent the player from spamming the Best Weapon infinitely, which is why the BFG in Quake 3/Redeemer in UT doesn't have a lot of ammo.

Here's where things get interesting. Going back to Q3 and UT, outside of the super weapons, there's no real clear *best* weapon in a lot of cases. It's very situational, and a lot of it is just how good the player is at using said weapons anyway. Also, being arena-shooters, it's important, for balance sake, that weapons be sort of on equal footing in a general sense but vary widely in usefulness situationally.

So. This doesn't really work for RPGs, or at least JRPGs. Why? Weapons in JRPGs don't really have interesting uses. A bastard sword, a crystal dragon sword, and a long sword are just three flavors of the same basic thing. Sure, there'll be different degrees of attack strength, but generally, it's a linear progression and you don't have a lot of need to use one instead of the other.

So I think this is less an issue of realism -- it's not really that realistic, anyway -- and more of an issue in that it exposes an underlying weakness in how weapons aren't used interestingly in JRPGs anyway.

Plus a lot of JRPGs will stick at least one character with some crappy weapon that only they can wield and is the only thing that they can wield like Ping Pong Paddles or Guitar Picks or some other bullshit.
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« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2010, 01:10:14 PM »

Plus a lot of JRPGs will stick at least one character with some crappy weapon that only they can wield and is the only thing that they can wield like Ping Pong Paddles or Guitar Picks or some other bullshit.

Yes, but it didn't used to be that way...I blame FFVII for starting that stupid trend.
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Darilon
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« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2010, 01:25:11 PM »

I think for some people the internet may be the cause. Nowadays you see a lot of how do I beat X boss in X game. I find it more rewarding when you discover that on your own. Of course there are exceptions such as DDS Demi-Fiend or wondering why you cannot find Shadow in FF6 WoR.

Also a lot more people seem to be playing their first playthrough of games with the aid of a FAQ to have a "Perfect game save". Nothing wrong with that but it takes a lot of the fun if it is your first playthrough.

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Aeolus
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« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2010, 03:21:58 PM »

Plus a lot of JRPGs will stick at least one character with some crappy weapon that only they can wield and is the only thing that they can wield like Ping Pong Paddles or Guitar Picks or some other bullshit.

Yes, but it didn't used to be that way...I blame FFVII for starting that stupid trend.

I'm pretty sure Rhys is the only one who's able to use swords in PS2 (and if you were using anything other than swords on him then what the fuck were you thinking).
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« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2010, 02:31:50 PM »

I miss the cel-shading art styles of some RPGs in the day.Fragile was the last game I played that had it but apart from the music,it wasn't very fun to play.
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« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2010, 10:15:53 AM »

I've tried so hard to find a game that totally captures me like the good old days when I was pounding out RPG after RPG.  Unfortunately, I still haven't been able to get into Western RPGs, although with the lack of JRPGs, I've been more willing to give them a shot than I would have previously. 

I've kinda gotten to this point recently too. I used to be completely uninterested in WRPGs, even up to when Oblivion came out and I rented it and got bored in an hour. Within the past year or so, however, a lack of really great JRPGs has almost forced me into trying out more Western RPGs, of which I've bought and finished quite a few. I still tend to prefer the party mechanics and easier (in my opinion) combat of JRPGs, but until there are more on the market that I think are actually worth buying, I'm at least satisfied playing some good WRPGs.
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