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Author Topic: There is no free lemonade  (Read 3607 times)
Darilon
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« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2010, 02:15:47 PM »

It's the equivalent of writing an article about seeing someone sharing a chocolate bar and then accusing them of being socialists.

This is kind of off topic but I have always been curious about the immense dislike many Americans seem to have for anything resembling socialism. I do not mean to sound flaming or anything. This forum seems pretty mature and I was wondering if someone could explain why.
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Sagacious-T
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« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2010, 02:25:41 PM »

It's the equivalent of writing an article about seeing someone sharing a chocolate bar and then accusing them of being socialists.

This is kind of off topic but I have always been curious about the immense dislike many Americans seem to have for anything resembling socialism. I do not mean to sound flaming or anything. This forum seems pretty mature and I was wondering if someone could explain why.

They're indoctrinated into believing the opposition of socialism, therefor they dislike socialism by default.

Ironically a large amount of american writers and poets in the early 20th century were supporters of communist and socialist ideals.

Also this article would more be like "Hey I have a silly story about sharing a candy bar, lets see if I can use that story to draw some readers and make an easy point"
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Starmongoose
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« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2010, 02:29:41 PM »

Look at it this way, the article may be inane and bitchy, but it has all of you reading and discussing it long after you got the main point. So perhaps it can be considered successful?


Everyone pretty much agrees she can't write worth a damn, but I guess she can be credited for starting a good discussion
It's the equivalent of writing an article about seeing someone sharing a chocolate bar and then accusing them of being socialists.

This is kind of off topic but I have always been curious about the immense dislike many Americans seem to have for anything resembling socialism. I do not mean to sound flaming or anything. This forum seems pretty mature and I was wondering if someone could explain why.


No idea. I wasn't actually meaning it in any negative association with socialism. Though I guess people can pretty much agree that Capitalism works best with reinforced by some good socialist ideologies as well. Pure capitalism doesn't work. Pure socialism doesn't work and pure communism doesn't work.

People are ever afraid of encroaching rivel ideologies and thus sparks a negative response. My assumption anyway, i'm hardly qualified to give a definite answer.

EDIT: I had to modify this about 5 times because my internet fucked up. Sorry about that.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 02:32:49 PM by Starmongoose » Logged

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« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2010, 02:31:18 PM »

You don't have to be a good writer to get attention. Hell you don't have to be good anything to be in media other than an attention grabber. Look at Glenn Beck.
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Hathen
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« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2010, 02:40:15 PM »

Quote
Look at it this way, the article may be inane and bitchy, but it has all of you reading and discussing it long after you got the main point. So perhaps it can be considered successful?

yeah because people weren't already discussing this enough already

there's nothing meaningful in a group of people coming together and agreeing about how much her article sucks shit
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Dincrest
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« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2010, 03:53:42 PM »

America was founded purely on capitalism.  People immigrated to this country for generations purely to make money and seek their fortunes.  Because of the spirit of rugged individuality and keeping what's yours, not to mention massive political conflicts with communist countries (even wars) the culture really is indoctrinated to believe that socialism is the enemy.  It's too bad really because some socialist policies would actually improve the conditions of the country (especially the economy, which is still in shambles.)  But because some politicians don't want to let go of their gold-lined pockets, they're filibustering any sort of action every step of the way preventing anything from happening. 

Nutshell, country was founded on capitalism, went to war with communist countries, cultural propaganda says commies are bad, hence America hates socialism.  And the average American probably doesn't know the difference between communism and socialism. 
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Sagacious-T
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« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2010, 04:41:32 PM »

Dincrest, the idea of working hard and the american dream is an ideological paradise that is flapping around now like a fish out of water. America was also founded on Europeans looking to avoid religious persecution.

The whole argument of Old ways = right is a fallacy that has helped doom entire empires in the past.

If we had a "pure" capitalist society, the government wouldn't be bailing out companies that give their CEOs million dollar bonuses when the corporation is falling apart. It wouldn't be giving no bid-contracts to Halliburton and other leeching companies on the taxpayer's money.

Either way, the fact that the Untied States used to be such a powerhouse of production in the capitalist world was the reason it became an economic superpower. Clinging faithfully today with such optimism in the capitalist's basic system is a surefire way to an economic collapse.
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Azrael
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« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2010, 05:09:23 PM »

No...the 13 Colonies were founded by Europeans avoiding religious persecution.  It was still part of England.  The U.S. was founded by a bunch of angry capitalists that were pissed off they had to keep sending their money back to England.

Also...the country might not be a true capitalist society (because quite frankly it just won't work) but the people believe it to be, and believe it to be the land of opportunity so much so that Americans have been indoctrinated to believe that socialism is a loss of freedom.  And as Dincrest said, many associate communism and socialism as being the same (though really they are similar enough) and U.S. politicians in that past and present have made very blatant associations with communism and socialism as being the loss of freedom.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2010, 05:18:47 PM »

Azrael- you said it better than I did.  

Thoren- funny you should mention the crumbling of the American dream  http://finance.yahoo.com/news/American-Dream-Is-Elusive-for-nytimes-1858628195.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=5&asset=&ccode=

'tis been the story of my life since '08 and somehow I remain positive as well. 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 05:34:16 PM by Dincrest » Logged

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Darilon
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« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2010, 05:23:15 PM »

Thank you for the responses. I think that has cleared up what I was wondering. I tried googling the answer before but they all seemed to turn ugly very quickly.
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Sagacious-T
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« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2010, 06:13:29 PM »

Azrael- you said it better than I did.  

Thoren- funny you should mention the crumbling of the American dream  http://finance.yahoo.com/news/American-Dream-Is-Elusive-for-nytimes-1858628195.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=5&asset=&ccode=

'tis been the story of my life since '08 and somehow I remain positive as well. 

Thanks for the article, I liked how the generations of his family had different views.

Here's is a very good article, although a bit biased and sensational, it emphasizes many strong ideas on the errors of american society, capitalism, and culture:
https://www.adbusters.org/magazine/90/hedges-american-psychosis.html
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