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Author Topic: Dragon Quest IX  (Read 21698 times)
Aeolus
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« Reply #45 on: July 24, 2010, 11:29:29 PM »

That King Slime Knight dude from the treasure maps can go fuck itself for summoning King Cure Slimes.

Looks like I'm gonna half to start taking this shit seriously if I want to get further (it may help if I actually equip my main character, load up on useful items like Yggrasial Leaves, start buying my shit instead of farming off the land, or change my characters into classes more useful in this kind of situation instead of leaving them in the classes I created them in).
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 11:35:47 PM by KillerArmoire » Logged

You've misunderstood me. I just seek your death only because you're in the way of my goal of world conquest. I can't help it that I have evil ambitions and am named Dark Lord. Honest.
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« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2010, 01:50:54 AM »

Am I the only one who felt that a lot of the bosses' difficulty just came from the fact that they sometimes had a ridiculously high critical hit rate?

I mean, I just finished the game, and I never even was worried against the final boss, but it was my second try. On my first try, his first attack was a critical hit on my main character, instant kill. Second turn, obviously Zing failed, he gets a critical on my priest, instant kill. Now I'm dead because none of the two other characters had yggdrasil leaves or a zing spell. Similar things happened against other bosses too, it's just really annoying since there's no strategy involved, you just hope you get lucky.
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Hathen
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« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2010, 10:28:41 AM »

Finished the game. On the RPGFan scale, 80% seems pretty much the right score. While the loads of equipment and class skills and whatnot can be fun to play with, they spent a lot of time adding all this to what was at its base too flawed/simple a game to make use of it. Get your basics right- if your combat is slow and mind-numbingly boring, I'm not going to want to grind out equipment or classes.

I didn't touch alchemy one bit by the way, unless you count making the most basic things (Medicines from other medicines). Running around the map looking for materials that don't have any real clues to where they are (outside of painfully obvious ones like lava lamps in volcanoes or something) isn't my idea of a fun crafting system.

Also, something about the story bothers me, so I might as well mention it.
Quote from: Spoilers
If this happened long enough ago for this empire to have actually fallen, why didn't this ghost go to the first obvious place to look for the Celestian? You know, in the jail of the people that killed her and took him.

Quote
Grandia breaks down into a pretty simple pattern from what I saw. At least, Grandia 2 did. You either spam crits or combos based on who's first in combat from what I saw and it got pretty boring since the pattern never varied.

What's nice about the two games I mentioned (GS and Grandia) is that there are other considerations to make in combat other than attacking and healing. For example, in Grandia, you needed to do some quick math in your head if you wanted to use Crits to interrupt enemies (Can my character get close to enemy fast enough, etc), and in Golden Sun, the use of Djinn/Summons had a risk/reward system where you could risk death through pitifully low stats to end combat much faster (Assuming you weren't grossly overleveled). If the rest of the DQ series has things to consider other than just spamming attack and Healmore, I can't imagine why they decided to actually devolve the combat. I don't care if it's too easy- because Grandia and Golden Sun are not in any way difficuly- as long as it's fun, which DQ9 is not.

Quote
Am I the only one who felt that a lot of the bosses' difficulty just came from the fact that they sometimes had a ridiculously high critical hit rate?

Nope, you are not alone. I've had some bosses score critical hits at least half the turns the whole battle, mostly towards the end of the game. I guess instead of opting to create any actual boss AI or strategy involved in taking these guys down, they made you have the need to go grind so you can survive a critical hit. Par for the course, really.
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Darilon
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« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2010, 10:57:55 AM »

If the rest of the DQ series has things to consider other than just spamming attack and Healmore,

From what I remember some are different. The basics are the same of course but I found the battles in VII to be a lot more challenging. Buffs and Debuffs were really useful. Of course it has been a while since I played VII so correct me if I am wrong.

I actually did not mind the alchemy part of IX. I prefer how Gust handles it but for IX I just returned now and again to the alchemy pot to see if I could make anything new. I never really tried purposefully looking for ingredients unless it was a quest or post game.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2010, 02:19:07 AM »

Finished the game. On the RPGFan scale, 80% seems pretty much the right score. While the loads of equipment and class skills and whatnot can be fun to play with, they spent a lot of time adding all this to what was at its base too flawed/simple a game to make use of it. Get your basics right- if your combat is slow and mind-numbingly boring, I'm not going to want to grind out equipment or classes.

I didn't touch alchemy one bit by the way, unless you count making the most basic things (Medicines from other medicines). Running around the map looking for materials that don't have any real clues to where they are (outside of painfully obvious ones like lava lamps in volcanoes or something) isn't my idea of a fun crafting system.

If you think this game's combat was slow and boring then I recommend never touching another FF game outside of XIII. Butt yea, I toadally agree with yous 1000000 purrsent that exploiting a world map was needles and booring, they should 'ave klept it as either a list of destinations or butter yeti a long hallway much like FFs X and XIII respectfolly.


Also, something about the story bothers me, so I might as well mention it.
Quote from: Spoilers
If this happened long enough ago for this empire to have actually fallen, why didn't this ghost go to the first obvious place to look for the Celestian? You know, in the jail of the people that killed her and took him.

While the plot's not perfect, what game plot is? Besides, there was something being mentioned about something going down in the empire during their first downfall aside from Upover and its dragon wrecking up the place which I don't know more about since I haven't reached postgame yet.


Quote
Grandia breaks down into a pretty simple pattern from what I saw. At least, Grandia 2 did. You either spam crits or combos based on who's first in combat from what I saw and it got pretty boring since the pattern never varied.

What's nice about the two games I mentioned (GS and Grandia) is that there are other considerations to make in combat other than attacking and healing. For example, in Grandia, you needed to do some quick math in your head if you wanted to use Crits to interrupt enemies (Can my character get close to enemy fast enough, etc), and in Golden Sun, the use of Djinn/Summons had a risk/reward system where you could risk death through pitifully low stats to end combat much faster (Assuming you weren't grossly overleveled). If the rest of the DQ series has things to consider other than just spamming attack and Healmore, I can't imagine why they decided to actually devolve the combat. I don't care if it's too easy- because Grandia and Golden Sun are not in any way difficuly- as long as it's fun, which DQ9 is not.

Sorry but Grandia really is as bland as he says it is. You've got no control over your party loadout and most of the characters are crap anyways since Ryudo is the one stunlocking/curbstomping anyways.

Also RE: Golden Sun... Bwhahahahah!!!

No seriously, what game were you really playing, because half of Golden Sun wasn't even that remotely strategic. The strategy for most fights came from figuring out how many characters will it take to bring down an enemy so that the rest of your party didn't waste the rest of their turn wiffing at an empty space that used to house said enemy. And Dijinni summoning was a very poorly implemented idea that lets you get off one fuck you all to hell attack then having the rest of your party cover for your summoner for 5-8 turns or until she's at the point where she wont get anally gang raped immediately by anything that can survive said summon. Also don't forget that the final bosses in that game were big on turning off your preset Djinni effectively casting a temporary level down on your characters.

Not even DQ's Tension is that bad.


Quote
Am I the only one who felt that a lot of the bosses' difficulty just came from the fact that they sometimes had a ridiculously high critical hit rate?

Nope, you are not alone. I've had some bosses score critical hits at least half the turns the whole battle, mostly towards the end of the game. I guess instead of opting to create any actual boss AI or strategy involved in taking these guys down, they made you have the need to go grind so you can survive a critical hit. Par for the course, really.

The critical hit spam is there so that you can't just curbstomp the boss by abusing class switching or getting a really high level equipment from on-line and grottoes. Its the only way to compensate for builds featuring paladins or priests, and the final boss also heals himself for a good 500 HP as well so you can't just cheese the fight with a high level paladin and priest combo without someone else who can also be the damage dealer.

This isn't a recent Final Fantasy game after all where final bosses are complete jokes.
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You've misunderstood me. I just seek your death only because you're in the way of my goal of world conquest. I can't help it that I have evil ambitions and am named Dark Lord. Honest.
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« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2010, 03:00:19 AM »

yeah i mean, fuck golden sun it lets you skip animations of the characters that would just be wasting your time after you see them that first time why can't i use a devastating attack with no backlash to my characters whatsoever that way i could just use it all the time that way i would be totally strategizing man why give bosses unique attack patterns or some shit like that when i can just run around killing metal slime after metal slime so i don't get one-shotted by the last boss iits so fun to run around a world map looking for sparkly things on the ground and trying to steal off enemies with that 5% success rate so i can make items that has no indications of whether it will be better than what i already have its totally more fun to just mindlessly press A over and over what are you talking about so i can progress in a plot that has a hole that wouldve avoided the entire conflict had people exhibited the least amount of common sense the dumb plot makes up for dumb game design famitsu 4eva
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Aeolus
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« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2010, 08:56:59 AM »

yeah i mean, fuck golden sun it lets you skip animations of the characters that would just be wasting your time after you see them that first time why can't i use a devastating attack with no backlash to my characters whatsoever that way i could just use it all the time that way i would be totally strategizing man why give bosses unique attack patterns or some shit like that when i can just run around killing metal slime after metal slime so i don't get one-shotted by the last boss iits so fun to run around a world map looking for sparkly things on the ground and trying to steal off enemies with that 5% success rate so i can make items that has no indications of whether it will be better than what i already have its totally more fun to just mindlessly press A over and over what are you talking about so i can progress in a plot that has a hole that wouldve avoided the entire conflict had people exhibited the least amount of common sense the dumb plot makes up for dumb game design famitsu 4eva

Yeah...I could argue with you until I go blue in the gills.

Or!

I can sum up my response with the suggestion for you to go back and play through Golden Sun parts 1 & 2 again and see for yourself just how little you actually remember of them from back when you were sucking on your momma's tits fresh from the womb.
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Raze
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« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2010, 11:51:17 AM »

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so i can make items that has no indications of whether it will be better than what i already have

Hit L or R and you can see stats :P
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Hathen
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« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2010, 12:43:08 PM »

yeah we wouldnt want to come up with a reason to say dq9 has so much strategy involved in how to not miss a liquid metal slme 6 times

by the way when pokemon has a deeper combat and crafting system than your game i think its time to go back to the drawing board
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Darilon
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« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2010, 01:17:46 PM »

yeah we wouldnt want to come up with a reason to say dq9 has so much strategy involved in how to not miss a liquid metal slme 6 times

You can also try your luck with a spears Thunder Thrust skill. It is an automatically critical hit if it connects.

Um...I get that you dislike the game but what is with the vibe of pure hatred?
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Hathen
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« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2010, 02:03:34 PM »

Dislike? Maybe. Hatred? Nope. The complaint isn't the design of the metal slime enemy family but rather the fact that the game forces you to power level a significant amount once you reach Goreham-Hogg and beyond just so you can get past critical hits (IE a level check), even though I was able to complete the game up to that point with a level 25 party. It's funny how anyone can describe being forced to power level as a sign of difficulty or strategy when once you get to a suitable level you're back to using normal attacks and heals ad nauseum (Late game buffing against bosses takes a dive when you spend 2 turns buffing just to get it removed on the third turn).

I didn't get my spear high enough to Thunder Thrust, but I did use Pressure Pointer and Assassin's stab which both worked fine. The problem isn't taking them down, it's how many I had to go through just so I could progress more through the main story of the game without needing to get absurdly lucky with criticals.

by the way killerarmoire luck still isnt strategy
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Raze
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« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2010, 05:09:26 PM »

Could be worse rng. Could be Nyx from persona 3.

13 stage fight. Boss starts using stat effects last 20% of last form. Get charmed and kill my party then she kills me.

Do it again, prepared with a charm immune persona. Junpei gets charmed instead and one shots me.

And then I'm off youtube to watch the ending.
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Agent D.
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« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2010, 07:08:00 PM »

Dude, DQIX is awesome. Maybe if you dislike basic cookie cutter RPG styles, you'd dislike this, but if you have a nostalgia bone, this game answers it. Anyone who calls it boring only started playing RPGs around PS2 era, because not for nothing, this game feels like most PS1 rpgs, and for that, I am greatly satisfied. Combat is simple, not overly complex with stupid gimmicks, and the character animations in battle are a much appreciated addition to the DS Dragon Quest games. The story is funny, light hearted, and entertaining, albeit pretty generic. The unnecessary addition of multiplayer is intriguing, if not a little forced on at the last second. Alchemy is never a necessity, but the amount of items added makes me wanna go get the all made, and as such, makes me kill retardedly weak enemies just for loot, which not enough games make you do anymore, kill enemies. As far as difficulty goes, it's only hard if you let it be hard. Grind a bit on some metal slimes, and you won't have problems. Choose to be legit and fight what's in the way, and you'll need to start looking at your gear options and maybe work in some new jobs, new moves, etc. I've died one time, and that's because I choose to fight an early boss solo for lulz.

DQIX rocks.
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« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2010, 07:21:22 PM »

Yeah, let's avoid being unnecessarily inflammatory arguing with personal insults hurled around.

Anywyas, some things I want to comment on here.

Running around the map looking for materials that don't have any real clues to where they are (outside of painfully obvious ones like lava lamps in volcanoes or something) isn't my idea of a fun crafting system.

Usually the spots where alchemy ingredients are on the world map make sense, you see an odd looking spot, like a darker area or one that's elevated some, you run there and find some ingredients to pick up. It's not very hard or confusing to explore thanks to the map at the top screen, and it doubles as hiding any grinding you may need to do since you'll probably run into a few monsters along the way.

Speaking of which: I believe grinding's also largely addressed (for the main story anyway) via the quests you can undertake, especially since so many of them are centered around beating up some monster several times. I didn't spend forever grinding on Metals anyway until the post game, at least not on Liquid Metal Slimes.

I would've preferred if they went for a more Bethesda or Bioware-esque approach for the quests and focused more on doing THINGS rather than just beating up a specific monster over and over until you get lucky and it drops what you need, especially since they could've easily made those quests into extra vignettes, something that's the specialty of the series. Maybe they can do this for DQX, where they'd have the storage space to throw in a bunch of extra little dungeons that aren't randomly generated. Still, I liked the game a lot, one of the best RPGs I've played in quite awhile.
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Raze
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« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2010, 10:24:27 PM »

Tried post game and am pretty disappointed with it. For all the new areas that open up...there's really nothing there. More annoying quests open up and there's one tiny dungeon. So the whole thing is pretty much grottos. Maybe I could roll with that, maybe not. But on top of that my highest grottos are level 17 when I'm level 40. And when I beat one it gives me a brand new level 7 map for my trouble. Maybe I'll try my luck one or two more times, but that's probably it for me.

Still, had a lot of fun with the main game.
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