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Author Topic: Israel to world: Fuck off  (Read 14110 times)
Angelo
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« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2006, 12:25:02 PM »

Quote from: "Dave"
It would appear to me that the only reason they're showing this much muscle is to scare fundamentalist militants, who are by every stretch, simply a bunch of ragtag criminals.


If every ragtag criminal has reliable missiles that can hit targets 30+ miles away, we're all in deep shit.
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flik
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« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2006, 02:50:34 PM »

Quote from: "Dave"
So they want to attack Americans, eh?

They won't have to go far.

Fucking insanity. By basically completely shutting down the country, Israel's managed to trap entire families of innocent people in the middle of a warzone.

But I'm sure there will be people who try to make their deaths seem insignificant compared to those of Israelis.

I understand Israel is defending itself, and it has every right to, but this is ridiculous. It would appear to me that the only reason they're showing this much muscle is to scare fundamentalist militants, who are by every stretch, simply a bunch of ragtag criminals. This is a "justified response" for the abduction of two soldiers?

I suppose if someone took a couple of National Guardsmen down to Mexico at gunpoint, we can bomb the shit out of their civilian areas?

what about the 800+ missiles they launched towards Israel and the 30+ dead 7 of them were killed in the abduction. and the another 40 that was killd in the past 6 years near the Lebanon border inside israel territoriy
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Dave
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« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2006, 05:43:18 PM »

So then you two would be fine with us bombing Mexico if some group kidnapped two National Guardsmen and took them there.

That's what you're saying?

EDIT: Ooh, ooh, even better hypothetical question. If we had a general idea as to where the guy was, could we in turn shut down Mexico City's airport, flatten dozens of buildings and be responsible for the deaths of over 800 people in three days, for those two guys?

I know it's not right to make it sounds like anyone deserves to get kidnapped -- they don't. But whole countries don't deserve to be blown to hell because there happens to be a group of criminals residing in it.

That's like wiping Texas off the map for the KKK.

Also, Angelo, anyone with money and will can get means to blow up whatever they want to. That's the world we live in today. Hell, here in America it didn't even hit home after Oklahoma City. We had to watch planes fly into buildings before we got the clue that people do this stuff all over the world.

But of course, we didn't bomb Saudi Arabia, where eleven of the fifteen hijackers came from. We bombed Afghanistan instead, because one guy was there. And we couldn't even find the man.

From what every single news agency in the world has said, the countries actually controlling Hezbollah are Syria and Iran. Apparently Lebanon is a victim in more ways than one, but regardless, Israel decided to flatten 20 more buildings in Lebanon today and has yet to capture anyone in this recent conflict.

This is a dick-waving contest with bombs. Prove it's not.
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Morwan
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« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2006, 05:47:08 PM »

30 people dying is no justification for purposefully bombing civilian targets. Israel has killed 300 people in the past seven days, just under 30 of them were in the military or associated with the Hezbollah. Half a million people have been displaced from their homes, and the international airport in Beirut has been hit by missles. Israel's campagn is only going to generate more sympathy for the Hezbollah in the Middle East.
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flik
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« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2006, 07:27:42 PM »

what about the 2 million pepole in Israel that lives in shluteres? what about my frind that his home was hit (and severly injuerd) by a missle righet after the kidnaping? and BTW isreal dosent rnadomly pickes houses and bomb them and past few days the IDF destroyd 50% of Hezbollah headquertes and wapon storge that most of tham were in the shai quertrs in brioth so if some shai moslem (that voted to the Hezbollah and his son serevs there) must die so an israli can live than so be it. arabs do not andersnd nothing but force talking wont help but only ancoruse them to try harder avrbody that says otherwise thay dont no arabs or muslims we tried talking we did every thing the un want us to do yet the only thing we got was death and about the Mexico question it not even close for more than 20 years Lebanon has done nothing to stop the Hezbollah and even gived them a plece in the govrment
it not only the kidnapig was as we say the stick that brock the camels back
what about that they try to block Israel #1 water source (thes destroying israel) ? what about they let Hezbollah built there bases so close to borderagint the UN decien (sory about the speling it real late her eamd with all the bobming here i dont have to much sleep) if the labnon govrment cant hundle it there guilty is asat and his puptier iran
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Lucid
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« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2006, 07:41:10 PM »

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but is english your first language?
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Angelo
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« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2006, 09:37:24 PM »

Looking at things another way, if the KKK launched missiles into Mexico, our military would stop them.  But say for instance we couldn't.  What is our sovereinty worth, then?

If Hezbollah wields so much military and civilian power, what is Lebanon?  What is military and what is civilian, in a country that can't govern itself?
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kyuusei
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« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2006, 11:45:24 PM »

The Canadians are on a waitlist to get out of there.

The problem is..there's like 50,00 of them. Yikes. I didn't realize there were so many in Beirut.
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Dave
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« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2006, 11:53:01 PM »

It is the job of civilized nations to recognize when a country that obviously has people not involved in this strife (like, say, the hundreds of thousands of foreign tourists in Lebanon now), and to take measures in their military action to avoid endangering those people.

Israel is lucky that it has the political capital it does, to be able to have warplanes flatten a dozen buildings a day and scorch an airport to the point where the people in the country that do intend to leave have no way of getting out.

What is "civilized" and what is "justice" when you use a lack of government as an excuse to destroy an entire country?

Aw heck, fuck my opinion. I think these guys have more leverage in the argument.

This is NOT the only means available to Israel to stop this strife; it's simply the means they chose to do the most damage.

Again, though, in all of this, what happened to the two soldiers whose kidnapping caused Israel's retaliation? Oh, that's right, they're either still captive, or dead by now.

But I'm one to talk, considering how great of a job we did in capturing Osama Bin Laden. Maybe I expect countries with incredible military might to use it responsibly. Shame on me.
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flik
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« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2006, 03:19:41 AM »

Quote from: "Lucid"
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but is english your first language?

Im dislektic
and we are doing our best to avoid cvilen damge but unforuntly there are
uisng civilians as humen shild and there hiding among them beilve my we can use a lot more force like useing more powefull bomb that wolud kill
nsralla insted of wounding him but at the cost civilians lives  or MLRS, YHRHO, about the closere of airportos that was to stop iran and soriya for giving tham asihavs and zizlaz missiles that can reach tel aviv or jrusilm and by that they will have the abilty to fire on 75% of isral population
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Angelo
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« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2006, 10:52:04 AM »

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What is "civilized" and what is "justice" when you use a lack of government as an excuse to destroy an entire country?


I never said that what Israel is doing is particularly just or civil, but I do try to see things from their perspective.  

People are always so quick to blame them for everything that goes wrong in the middle east, in complete disregard of the Israeli citizens who spend their whole lives walking on pins and needles, wondering if their favorite lunch destination is going to blow up today.

I do feel for the Lebanese citizens, but I don't ignore the fact that weapons getting fired from Lebanon into Israel is completely unacceptable.  I don't ignore that bombs from the West Bank and Gaza going off in Israel is unacceptable.  And I don't ignore that this has been going on for a long time.  Israel has given up land.  They have participated in countless peace talks.  And still the bombs keep coming.
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Takezo
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« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2006, 03:57:24 PM »

You guys go back and forth, comparing wounds and waving your battle scars while refusing to realize that both sides are getting equally wronged because both sides are equally reluctant to call off their dick races. Flik, Israel is no more innoncent than the Hezbollah, get it through your head. Both parties do more than their fair share of killing so open your eyes and quit pretending like you alone have been victimized.
 
ps: It's not even your fucking land.

I fucking hate that our news is so mindlessly pro-israel.

Can you honestly swallow this madness, he's spitting: "we're not harming civillians, the Lebanese are using the civillians as human shields, we're the good guys see?"

I mean, some of the approaches I've read to this are absurd. "It's like a little kid in the school yard getting picked on, he just wants to fight back" Little kids fight back during lunch with sandwiches, not by ordering attacks against millions of people, it's not the same thing, stop infantilizing them.
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GhaleonOne
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« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2006, 04:19:04 PM »

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Israel is no more innoncent than the Hizbollah, get it through your head.


No. You're comparing a nation to a terrorist organization. It's not even on the same level. Hezbollah is firing rockets out of civilian houses AT civilians. Israel may not be perfect, and you can certainly make an argument that they're going in too strong, but they're not intentionally trying to kill off civilians. Hezbollah is INTENTIONALLY firing missles straight into Haifa and Nazareth with the intent to kill Israelis. (and keep in mind it took out Arab Israeli children yesterday, to boot) Israel is attempting to take out Hezbollah, a TERRORIST organization. I don't like seeing Lebanese stuck in the cross-fire, but to act as if Israel is intentionally trying to kill as many civilians as possible is certainly not true. Why do you think they took out the bridges into and out of Syria? To keep Syria from continuing to push more and more weapons to Hezbollah. You want to point a finger? Point it at Syria for funding this crap. And if you want to complain about someone destroying Lebanon, complain about Syria (and Iran) for occupying  and sending in their Hezbollah thugs to control the damn country in the first place. But the notion that Israel is as bad as Hezbollah is absurd. Plain and simple.
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Takezo
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« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2006, 05:09:36 PM »

That's one way to interpret it, another is that I'm simply saying both sides are guilty and that he should stop acting as if he alone has been victimized.  If you want to break it down into degrees of innoncence, I'd be willing to bring up minor trifles like palestenian genocide, or refusing to allow abumlances into westbank after their invasion (Which claimed american lives aswell) exacerbating what was already a staggering civillian deathtoll by allowing hundreds to bleed to death. Helicopters casually opening fire into houses in Bethlehem.etc
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Dave
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« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2006, 06:15:22 PM »

I wouldn't call Israel "the same" as Hezbollah.

I'd say they're probably just as bad in terms of peace being had in the Middle East, though. Israel doesn't want to give any land up -- WTF are you smoking, Angelo? The land that is currently called "Israel" is only named such because the United States recognized it as a country after about 30 minutes of debating it ("We can't let Russia do it first!" "OK!"). Since then there has been a race of people who have felt that their entire homeland was taken from them.

Treating them like animals and giving them "designated areas" of your land where they're "allowed" to live is degenerating to the Palestinians that DO want peace, because they (rightfully) feel like second-class citizens.

The difference between Hezbollah and Israel? You're right, Hezbollah is just an organization. Israel's killing comes from their country's own policy, and from its leaders wanting violence to continue.

You don't think they want it to go on? Why don't you see who makes money in Israel from them using all those missiles, jet fuel, tank fuel and guns. The outright hatred is NOT one sided here, people.

And need I even post the links about the children who Israel has gone out of its way to kill?

This isn't some "Holy land" full of Godly people who want nothing but peace and love. They're selfish, arrogant, warmongering and destructive, just like the people they fight against. The only difference is they have the blessing of dogmatic folk who think the end of the world happens just like it says in Revelation.

At least there are some world leaders who can see the errors in Israel's ways.
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