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Author Topic: Just started Strange Journey...  (Read 4842 times)
kyuusei
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2010, 07:17:50 PM »

All I have to say is my hat is off to anyone who managed to get through that last dungeon without using a faq.

EDIT: Oddly enough, I actually find Strange Journey to be LESS frustrating than P3 for some reason.

Odd. I've never had any trouble with P3 unless I just pushed too far into Tartarus in a single night with a tired party. Or played The Answer, which is just...argh.

Strange Journey felt really easy to me at first. Gets challenging though, but I'm not too far in, so I'm not sure if it stays that way. :P
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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2010, 07:19:16 PM »

All I have to say is my hat is off to anyone who managed to get through that last dungeon without using a faq.

EDIT: Oddly enough, I actually find Strange Journey to be LESS frustrating than P3 for some reason.

The last dungeon just opened up for me, so I'm going to see if I can make it through without a FAQ. I haven't used one for any dungeons yet.
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« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2010, 12:36:00 AM »

Well I'm having a lot more luck with the game now.  Just managed to walk into the second area, and I'm starting to get the hang of things.  I took some advice and started fusing a lot more demons and taking things slower.  Maybe I just spent too much time with DQ9 last week and forgot that RPGs can be challenging.  I'll certainly talk about some of my experiences when we record the podcast this weekend!
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« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2010, 01:41:20 PM »

Ugh, instant death attacks on my main character can just suck it.  Why does Atlus insist on this horribly arcane fail state system when the main character falls?  I understand it in the context of the narrative, but this kind of shit is borderline abusive.  It sucked in Persona and it sucks now. 
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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2010, 01:45:33 PM »

Ugh, instant death attacks on my main character can just suck it.  Why does Atlus insist on this horribly arcane fail state system when the main character falls?  I understand it in the context of the narrative, but this kind of shit is borderline abusive.  It sucked in Persona and it sucks now. 

I agree. I would never equip a persona if it was weak to Light or Darkness. You are just asking for a stray Mahama or Mamudo to kill you.
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2010, 01:53:48 PM »

I shut the game off after it happened, and I don't know if I'm going to go back.  I have a real problem with a game if I feel like I've wasted my time.  I'm all for games trying out new fail states that don't just throw you backwards if you die.  More games need to take the example of Demon's Souls and give new gameplay opportunities when you die.  Hell, even Dragon Quest keeps the frustration level down by just sending you back to the last save point and taking some of your money away.  You still keep your experience and equipment, so it's not a complete lost.  Atlus really needs to incorporate this in their SMT games (especially a handheld title which is meant to be played in short bursts). 
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Starmongoose
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2010, 02:14:56 PM »

I don't think Strange Journey is ever actually meant to be played as a on-the-go type of game, I think it's a console RPG on a handheld. If that makes sense.

They probably only went on the DS because it fitted the games style and gameplay better than it would releasing it on a modern console.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2010, 02:43:40 PM »

There's a save room every 5 feet.  It's not the game's problem that you don't take the opportunity to save very often.

If you're afraid of Mudo spells, carry around Tetraja spells and wear armor that resists Dark/Light.  Mudo spells killing you are not a failing on the part of the game, it's a lack of preparedness on your part.
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Fadedsun
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2010, 02:57:04 PM »

Like Gen said, if you're afraid of Mudo/Hama skills have a demon that has Tetraja, or equip armor that has ST or NU against them. There's plenty of armor for it, so don't sit there and complain about this "archaic" game system. There's plenty of defenses against it. There's even an item called Sacrifice that brings you back to life if you die from a Mudo/Hama spell.

Also, when a demon is half way analyzed, you become aware of what skills they have. This should help you when protecting yourself from those attacks. I've rarely died from a Mudo/Hama skills since demons often just attack rather than use skills against you, which I found annoying because I wanted more of a challenge.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 03:02:07 PM by Fadedsun » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2010, 03:05:03 PM »

@Gen - It's really easy to blame the gamer in a case like this.  You could argue that I wasn't prepared, or that I should have saved earlier.  Arguing with these points is meaningless, and I feel like you missed the point of my post.  My problem isn't that the game killed me, it's that all I can do when something like that happens is restart from my last save point.  I'm not a fan of those kinds of fail states, and I'm surprised that in nearly thirty years of mainstream gaming they remain so prevalent today.  My other complaint was that the game ends when the main character falls, which can be infuriating if the rest of your party is holding their own just fine. 
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Fadedsun
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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2010, 03:14:51 PM »

@Gen - It's really easy to blame the gamer in a case like this.  You could argue that I wasn't prepared, or that I should have saved earlier.  Arguing with these points is meaningless, and I feel like you missed the point of my post.  My problem isn't that the game killed me, it's that all I can do when something like that happens is restart from my last save point.  I'm not a fan of those kinds of fail states, and I'm surprised that in nearly thirty years of mainstream gaming they remain so prevalent today.  My other complaint was that the game ends when the main character falls, which can be infuriating if the rest of your party is holding their own just fine. 

Well, of course all you can do is restart from where you last saved. What other option is there? This isn't the type of game where you die, and restart right in the middle of where you left off. Your complaint of the main character dying is acceptable, but when you think about it it makes sense. The main character is controlling his party of demons. Without him, what are they going to do? It makes less sense in the Persona games because they're human and should be able to carry on by themselves even though the MC is their leader.
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« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2010, 03:20:48 PM »

He mentioned a one Fadedsun. The option of when you die, be taken back to the last place you saved but you get to keep the experience points and items you found. Similar to Pokemon.

This could also carry a penalty, maybe you don't get to keep the items you gathered in that dungeon or something like that. But you don't have to start over from your last save, maybe you stupidly forgot to save after a while, sure you were being stupid, but it does knock some enjoyment from the game when you have to do everything you just did over again.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 03:22:57 PM by Starmongoose » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2010, 03:28:23 PM »

I mentioned in my post that it actually makes sense in terms of the narrative that the game ends if the main character falls, but it's still very frustrating.

And see, I don't like the whole "What else can you do" argument for fail states.  There are options, like the previous mentioned Demon's Souls or Dragon Quest games.  I just hate the fact that developers are still using thirty year old gameplay mechanics when they could be trying new and innovative things.  Hell, even if they try and fail I'm still happy to see developers taking chances and trying new things.  

Think about the demon conversation system, for example.  I find it very frustrating and tedious because the answers feel arbitrary at times and you can end up losing a conversation even if you seem to pick the right answers.  Why not outline some of the demon's likes and dislikes on the bottom screen of the DS and expand on them the more you interact with them?  This would enable a player who pays attention to succeed, but also help out others who can't remember all of the correct responses for each individual demon in the game.  You could still be cryptic in the descriptions (say, this type of demon is very vain) in order to keep the conversation interesting.  

I'm sure some people will just accuse me of bitching needlessly, but the fact of the matter is that I am very critical of games because of how great they can be.  Saying that it's the gamer's fault doesn't really get us anywhere, though.  It's a cyclic argument.  I blame the game, someone blames me, I blame the developer, and we go round and round.  Rather than just saying "this sucks!" I try to outline what could improve the game slightly.  I don't have all the answers when it comes to fail states, but I do think that we can add penalties to death in games without simply making me waste half an hour of time because of a miscalculation.  
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2010, 03:40:56 PM »

The game already gives you all that information.  Demons don't really have individual likes/dislikes, it's all based on their personality, which is seperated into main broad archetypes.  Every single enemy with the "Brute" mentality will talk the same way, ask the same questions, and like/dislike the same answers.  If they give you any more information the game loses it's flavor of negotiating with demons.  There's SUPPOSED to be some chance involved, you're not exactly talking to some random old man on the street here.

And one of the main counterpoints to your "improvements" is that a lot of them aren't straight up improvements.  One of the hallmarks of the SMT series is unrelenting challenge; they're supposed to be a stark contrast to the hand-holding FF titles that don't even let you walk off the path anymore.

It's alright if you don't like that kind of game.  Some people want their hands held.  I don't like extremely hard third-person action games, for example.  Games like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune are right up my alley as opposed to games like Devil May Cry which are hard for the sake of it.  But you don't blame the game for it.
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« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2010, 03:44:15 PM »

Strange Journey doesn't need a design overhaul.  I don't recall ever going 30 minutes without a save point, and if the penalties were any less, I wouldn't get a sense of satisfaction from equipping armor that nullifies dark attacks after dying to mudo.

Based on how far you are, I'm sure it was mudo, and there is armor available at the lab to protect you from it.  Equipping that armor felt good, considering that death is something I really care to avoid.

Like someone said above, make short trips, see what you're up against, build a party that exploits the weaknesses of the enemies in the area, and then press on.  You shouldn't die more than once to any given scenario.  As soon as you notice a weakness (such as susceptibility to instant death) work on that.

I died to mudo at the same place, and am just now, two sectors later, deciding to swap the armor out until I encounter a demon with mudo again.  I'm sure it'll be ok...

edit: I will say that it is funny how after all that, the MAZE becomes the biggest challenge... at least it is for me haha.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 03:52:29 PM by Fei » Logged

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