Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 30, 2014, 07:29:43 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
RPGFan Community Quiz
Next Quiz Date: January 11, 2014
Subject: 999 (Nintendo DS)
For more information click HERE!
327828 Posts in 13420 Topics by 2169 Members
Latest Member: KopeAcetic
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  RPGFan Message Boards
|-+  Media
| |-+  Single-Player RPGs
| | |-+  Why are popular RPGs given bad reviews?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 Print
Author Topic: Why are popular RPGs given bad reviews?  (Read 8029 times)
Kevadu
Posts: 3588


Some guy

Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2010, 12:29:18 PM »

Not having a world map != linear.  Yes, FFX was linear but that isn't the reason why.  FFXII also doesn't have a world map but it's probably the least linear FF game of them all.  (In the sense of having tons of things to explore and do in between story segments.  The story is still linear, but they all are.)  And then there's FFXIII, which takes killing exploration to a new level...

For the record I really liked Tales of Vesperia but I don't play many Tales games so I'm not tired of the combat system.
Logged

Tooker
RPGFan Editor
Posts: 9179


Member
*

king_friday@hotmail.com PeopleJohnT bigfatusername@yahoo.com
View Profile
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2010, 12:58:41 PM »

Some reviewers just bag on a game for being a JRPG.

I feel that way about hack & slash games.  If you go to see a romantic comedy, you shouldn't complain because there's not enough gunplay.  Things should be appreciated for what they're intended to be, not for failing to be something they weren't even shooting for.
Logged

Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand.
—Kurt Vonnegut
Gen Eric Gui
Posts: 2302


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2010, 03:04:50 PM »

Bad voice acting coupled with a cheesey animoo story killed the game for me.

Quote
Same poster likes the stories of Tales games

Does not compute.

And if you think FFX had "bad voice acting" you need to go play Chaos Wars.  FFX has great voices.

And Overworlds generally only offer the illusion of freedom.  99% of JRPGs with overworlds are no more open-ended then FFX or XIII, they just pretend that they are.
Logged
Kevadu
Posts: 3588


Some guy

Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2010, 03:15:44 PM »

And Overworlds generally only offer the illusion of freedom.  99% of JRPGs with overworlds are no more open-ended then FFX or XIII, they just pretend that they are.

Pretending matters.

I think the illusion of choice can be just as important as actually providing choices.  Give players the opportunity to explore, even if there's only one place to go in the end.  Plus there is always the opportunity for sidequests and things.  FFXIII is the extreme antithesis of that, in which you are just running down narrow corridors.

Logged

Eusis
Administrator
Posts: 11792


Member
*


View Profile
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2010, 06:01:36 PM »

Nah, most of those 99% ARE less linear than FFXIII, but only because of actually enabling backtracking. Still, while the illusion matters there needs to be SOME level of freedom added. Why not have a few side dungeons I could go to if I want? Or maybe small points in the story where I can accomplish events in any order I want (I recall Tales of Symphonia allowed this)? There's quite a bit of middle ground that rarely is addressed adequately, there's also keeping it linear but forcing exploration in order to make it FEEL less linear as the case typically is for Metroidvanias and some Zeldas.
Logged
thegamingatheist
Posts: 15

Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2010, 06:11:56 PM »

Not having a world map != linear.  Yes, FFX was linear but that isn't the reason why.  FFXII also doesn't have a world map but it's probably the least linear FF game of them all.  (In the sense of having tons of things to explore and do in between story segments.  The story is still linear, but they all are.)  And then there's FFXIII, which takes killing exploration to a new level...

For the record I really liked Tales of Vesperia but I don't play many Tales games so I'm not tired of the combat system.

Good point. It was more than not having a world map. It seemed like I couldn't do anything or go anywhere in that game.
Logged
thegamingatheist
Posts: 15

Member
*


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2010, 06:34:11 PM »

Bad voice acting coupled with a cheesey animoo story killed the game for me.

Quote
Same poster likes the stories of Tales games

Does not compute.

And if you think FFX had "bad voice acting" you need to go play Chaos Wars.  FFX has great voices.

And Overworlds generally only offer the illusion of freedom.  99% of JRPGs with overworlds are no more open-ended then FFX or XIII, they just pretend that they are.


I guess I'd have to play the game agian in order to explain what about FFX's plot I find so damn annoying. It gives me the same feeling as Devil may cry 2, or MGS2. I call it animuu.  Having towns and dungeons to explore makes a pretty big difference. Tales' plot didn't come off as cheesy other than Lyod's lines.And those were only a little cheesy.
Logged
Prime Mover
Posts: 2791


All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio

Member
*

Shattre
View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2010, 07:03:39 PM »

Illusion of freedom. I'm absolutely in agreement with this. However, very very rarely do you find a game that has illusion of freedom but actually doesn't have any at all. Part of creating the illusion of freedom is actually having a bit of freedom, but just enough that you believe there to be a whole lot more than there actually is.

The reality is that every gamer has a different comfort zone when it comes to freedom, exploration, and progression. Some gamers don't like to explore. They find it tedious and boring. I think in the currently world of ADD gaming, exploration is commonly seen as a chore, with battle and plot progression being the immediate aim. This is why we've seen the decline of the world map. Other gamers like unlimited freedom, but don't care for progression. Sandbox games appeal to them because they can do whatever they want, but don't have to worry about someone constantly telling them to do anything.

Travelable world maps emphasize exploration. And they are commonly an avenue to freedom or the illusion of freedom. Dot maps allow for freedom, but de-emphasize world exploration. Travelogs like FFX, FFXIII, and Xenosaga de-emphasize freedom and exploration, but heavily emphasize forward momentum.

An aside: I actually don't think FFX was any less linear than FFXIII. There were almost no sidequests off the main path, except for about 3. The big difference was that, because it de-emphasized freedom, it had to rely on story. And if there was anything that FFX did really well, it was its story. FFXIII had a terrible story. It had stronger characters, IMO, but its story was badly constructed, and even more terribly conveyed. For a game that de-emphasizes freedom and exploration, you HAVE to be at least fairly riveting in your story department at some level.

As for Tales games. Their stories are fluff. But they have a strong emphasis on character portrayal and interaction. So even when you’re mindlessly chasing after cliché bad man for some bullshit reason that you really don’t care about, the real point is in seeing how the characters deal with it and each other, and it works. Also, as a game that still emphasizes exploration, both globally and in dungeons, not having a stellar story isn’t a complete game killer as it was for FFXIII.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 07:07:18 PM by Prime Mover » Logged


eelhouse.net
- order the new album

Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 2, Trails in the Sky, Bioshock: Infinite
Currently Listening to: Devin Townsend, Dream Theater
Watching: Star Trek: TOS, Slayers, Doctor Who (as usual)
Sagacious-T
Posts: 2381


Official Pony Thread

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2010, 07:06:17 PM »

FF10 had terrible voice acting, especially compared to 12, which was excellent besides Fran (Then again some like her)

FF10 had a good story/setting and a few memorable characters. FF13 had an amazing setting, just amazing, but it was never utilized and the plot sucked. Characters were also great but not utilized well. "WE CAN DO IT GUYZ JUST BELIEVE IN OURSELVES..."

Look at popular Western RPGs and their design. Freedom is really just choosing being nice or being an asshole, and choosing what location to hit up before the other. Its cleverly done, few games have true open ended freedom. The closest we get are probably Space Combat/Exploration/Trading sims
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 07:09:53 PM by Thoren » Logged
Starmongoose
Contributing Editor
Posts: 5135


Vicious Feminist

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2010, 07:09:28 PM »

I was never dissatesfied with the amount of sidequests there were in FFX. You had Blitzball (Yeah, yeah, I know, not everyones cup of tea). There was the monster arena (I found this very fun), you could collect the ultimate weapons, there was an optional dungeon with an optional boss, the dark aeons, the Al Behd passwords/primers, and some unimportant ones such as lightning dodging and the cactuar thing.


FFX is linear, but I never thought 'God, this sure is linear", not like I did with XIII anyway.
Logged

SAVE THE PENGUIN!



Here to suck the fun out of games.
Sagacious-T
Posts: 2381


Official Pony Thread

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #55 on: August 25, 2010, 07:11:08 PM »

I agree Starmongoose, despite it's flaws, I thoroughly enjoyed FFX from start to finish. It had a nice balance of story, fun combat, towns/downtime between dungeons, A few puzzle areas, etc. It didn't feel like a gauntlet.
Logged
Prime Mover
Posts: 2791


All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio

Member
*

Shattre
View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #56 on: August 25, 2010, 07:11:58 PM »

I was never dissatesfied with the amount of sidequests there were in FFX. You had Blitzball (Yeah, yeah, I know, not everyones cup of tea). There was the monster arena (I found this very fun), you could collect the ultimate weapons, there was an optional dungeon with an optional boss, the dark aeons, the Al Behd passwords/primers, and some unimportant ones such as lightning dodging and the cactuar thing.

FFX is linear, but I never thought 'God, this sure is linear", not like I did with XIII anyway.

But my point is, even though it had minigames and sidequests, hardly any of them involved exploration. You didn't have to search for the land of blitzball, or find the place where you had to dodge 100 lighting bolts. They were all right there in front of you. What I missed in FFX was exploration. Not content or side-projects.
Logged


eelhouse.net
- order the new album

Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 2, Trails in the Sky, Bioshock: Infinite
Currently Listening to: Devin Townsend, Dream Theater
Watching: Star Trek: TOS, Slayers, Doctor Who (as usual)
Lard
Posts: 5660


Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2010, 07:16:11 PM »

FF10 had terrible voice acting

I know things are subjective, but no, it didn't have terrible voice acting. The word terrible describes things like Cross Edge and Tales Games and SO4. If you didn't like it, fine, but it is not terrible.
Logged

I avoid online multiplayer because my brain still works.
Sagacious-T
Posts: 2381


Official Pony Thread

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2010, 07:18:13 PM »

Remember how awesome FF7 was guys? Remember that RTS mountain defense game you could play. Or how about the time you get sent to the prison death camp below the Golden Saucer? Immersive as fuck.

The game didn't need off the track exploring because the game itself felt like you were exploring. Is till remember climbing the damn pipe in Midgar and thinking "holy shit, how high does this motherfucker go?" then getting to the upper plate and finally realizing I was literally living under the upper plate in the slums!


Lard: It's terrible compared to games with good voice acting. Look outside the realm of JRPGs and come back. Stuff like Cross Edge are beyond terrible, they're patronages to satan.
Logged
Starmongoose
Contributing Editor
Posts: 5135


Vicious Feminist

Member
*


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #59 on: August 25, 2010, 07:31:06 PM »

I've never really understood the whole exploration part that people seem to enjoy in video games, Prime Mover,or rather, I just have never 'got' it. My idea of exploration is going to the next dungeon seeing the exit, but noticing there are a couple paths left unexplored, which might hold some awesome treasure, or an extra scene.

When I'm thrust into a sort of open-world enviroment, I feel a tad disorientated. I need a sense of direction, and I hate the thought of the dungeon just getting deeper and deeper while it's been about 4 hours since I last saw some story.

I'm not knocking those kinds of games, I'm just saying, totally not my thing. :D

Stuff like Cross Edge are beyond terrible, they're patronages to satan.


This is why God will lose the war, he is totally behind the times man. Satan is  smart enough to modernize and find new to ways create evil. I know bad voice acting is far more plentiful than goat sacrifices nowadays!
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 07:33:13 PM by Starmongoose » Logged

SAVE THE PENGUIN!



Here to suck the fun out of games.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!