Ridiculous plot wanking...

[Dincrest]

I think the issue is similar to cooking a stew.  Too many chefs and an imbalance of too many or too few ingredients can ruin the stew.  I feel like this happened with Grandia III.  What could have been the simple beautiful story about a boy, his plane, his dream of flight, his idol, and the added bonus of a fleshed out relationship with his mom thrown in for good measure (since RPGs typically don't focus on parental relationships) instead turned into a vapid, magical mystery girl, "power of love saves all" cornball of a story.  Alfina was the unnecessary ingredient that ruined the stew. 

Sometimes a story needs the metaphysical hoosefudge, but sometimes it just feels like it's there as an illusion of depth or pretentiousness.  I point to this Xenogears parody: http://www.whatdoesgodneedwithastarship.com/  Megami Tensei is a series where the "metaphysical hoosefudge" is beautifully incorporated and never once feels pretentious.

Again, a cooking analogy.  Do you want a simple dish that's cooked really well or a really complex dish that's cooked in a mediocre fashion? 

[Akanbe-]

Boy there sure is a lot of jaded gamers in this thread.

Hai, you must be new.  This forum is for whining and bitching about RPGs.  Don't fight it.  Just succumb to it.  They all do eventually.

[Kevadu]

Hai, you must be new.  This forum is for whining and bitching about RPGs.  Don't fight it.  Just succumb to it.  They all do eventually.

I still like RPGs...

...well, some of them.

[MeshGearFox]

Everyone on RPGFan is like 40 years old and sick of everything.

[FlamingR1ft]

I'm not! Maybe that's why I still like some cliché RPGs.... Hmm.... Let's have this discussion in another twenty years. When I'm forty.

[Starmongoose]

I aged about 40 years since joining these forums.

I'm but a shell of the man I used to be, my optimism and happy-go-lucky attitude stripped to the bones and replaced with the cold comfort of cynicism and disappointment.

[badsanta]

I'm not! Maybe that's why I still like some cliché RPGs.... Hmm.... Let's have this discussion in another twenty years. When I'm forty.

Me too. Although, I think my jading has been increasing at an accelerated rate. A few years ago, I thought most Final Fantasies were quite fantastic. Now, VI and IX are the only ones I give a darn about, and a lot of my personal picks are much more obscure titles for various reasons, which is possibly because I've played many titles since then, both new and old ones. (And in only a few years.) So, ask me in 11 years. When I'm 30.

[Kevadu]

In an industry that seems dominated by vapid fanboys and 13 year olds who call everything 'gay', the old fogey attitude is one of the things I love about this place.

[Prime Mover]

Kevadu, I think you're right on the money. In attempts to appease the fanbois, RPGs have become TOO heterosexual.

[OkamiGeisha]

I agree that it would be great for RPGs to tell some different and creative stories with more mature characters.  After all, the average gamer is said to be in their mid-30s.. as I am as well.  Maybe game developers need to teem up with actual writers and storytellers to do this.  In my wildest dreams, I can imagine games with realistic depictions of the 19th century. 

But I'll still play that ones with all the usual cliches and enjoy them, despite the childish stories.

[Dincrest]

That's one of the reason the "Power Point" sequences of Lost Odyssey were so well received.  Those were written by a book author and many critics and fans easily picked up on the difference between his writing and the "video gamey" writing of Sakaguchi.  I haven't played the game (don't own a 360), but that's what I've pretty much read on sites and fora after the game was out a while. 

And once again, MegaTen proves that you don't need adult characters to have a mature storyline.  Persona 2: Innocent Sin's cast were all teenagers, yet their writing and storylines were really heavy. 

[Akito]

I agree with us all being old fogeys(mentally)...

I could not stomach more then 3 hours of FFXIII before quitting and selling it, I later picked up Phantasy Star IV (my first RPG) and beat it in 3 days...satisfied as ever as cliche as it was...but that was only thanks to nostalgia.

Maybe us older folks just can't immerse ourselves in "coming of age" stories anymore, no matter how pretty and shiny they've become.

[Dincrest]

And, again, I come to the complaint I've lobbied 371,292 times already.  The focus is too much on the pretty shiny gimmickry and not on the writing.  A coming of age story can be compelling to us old fogeys if it's written well.  Harry Potter is essentially a coming of age story and people of all ages read those books.  Even in the film industry, you have heavy hitters like Avatar that are all production values.  Take away the production values, and you have a juvenile and downright hokey script with paper-thin character archetypes.

[GrimReality]

I'm 35, and have come full circle from loving jrpgs and all their silliness, to barely being able to stomach it anymore. Good thing I no longer play games thinking I'm going to get anything deep or life-altering out of them. I just want to be entertained, and be respected by the developer. Poor writing and silly plot lines do not do this. Probably why I like the ME games so much. They actually respect the player as an intelligent human being.
Oddly enough, I'm liking FFXIII so far(5 hrs in). The story is stupid, but I've been roped in by the graphics, music, and great battle system.
Not an rpg, but reviews I've read of Other M say that the story stuff is not well done and brings down the whole experience. Way to go, Tecmo.

[ZeronHitaro]

I actually don't mind some philosophical "grand scale" deus ex diabolous BS in my plot lines. It's one the few cliches that actually don't grind on my nerves. However I think my tolerance for the not so much plot device as "game device" that states we must take every 15 minutes to drill 5-20 minutes of typically "friendship is good-power of love" external monologue into your face. I too happen to be playing FFXIII right now and having reached the third disk I want to sometimes just up and quit the game everytime a cut scene pops up. This same afternoon school special has been on repeat since the 2 hour mark. >.<

Do these characters ever talk about anything else besides constantly bickering over the semantics of Pulse vs Cocoon and the whole circle dialog of "I'm emo and lonely despite having friends. But now my friends are talking to me. Suddenly I feel better. But don't worry, someone else will enter this same cycle within 1-3 cutscenes."?

@GrimReality: Btw, hope  you really really like that music. It feels like a lot of the tracks are recycled throughout the entire game  to the point where it feels like there is little variety. Especially the normal battle theme. ~.~ Battle time? Normal Battle music! Action scene? Normal Battle music! Getting slightly pumped? Normal Battle music! Two guys just walking nonchalantly down a road while nothing stressful or high tension is going on for about 20-30 seconds? Normal Battle music! (I really wish I was kidding about that last one.)