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Author Topic: Why are popular RPGs given bad reviews?  (Read 7985 times)
Themadcow
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« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2010, 09:14:45 AM »

Sorry for resurrecting an old(ish) thread, but reading it made me check some older reviews on this site and I was pretty amazed that from 3 editor reviews here Suikoden II didn't score higher than 85%. For a game that is widely considered the greatest in the series, and quite a few peoples greatest ever JRPG, I'd expected at least one review over 90%. I've recently taken the time to replay it once again (107 stars and best ending... takes a while) and despite it's age the graphics still had the power to impress (hero and Jowy unite for example).

This is one example where the general reviewing world actually rated the game as highly, or more highly than the niche experts on RPGfan. Unfortunately the game is too old to show on Metacritic now but mid-80's was the average across all reviews.
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Eusis
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« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2010, 12:38:49 PM »

85%'s fine, even though the site skews higher than lower (not what I prefer) I don't think it was as prominent then, and anyway I've enjoyed a lot of games in the 7/8 range far more than some that got in the 9+ range. Still, looking again I'm surprised at how hard two of the reviews were on the story. Maybe my perspective will change now that I'm older, but SuikII's story was way better than a lot of the crap that's popped up in JRPGs.

Also, all three of them are long gone anyway.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 12:48:06 PM by Eusis » Logged
Starmongoose
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« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2010, 12:42:15 PM »

Suikoden II's story definitely deserves more than it got, but this is why we tell people to broaden their horizons and check out multiple sources for their information rather than just one guy.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2010, 08:08:49 PM »

Food for Thought: Nintendo Power only gave the original pokemon games like a 7/10 or thereabouts. GRANTED, I sort of think R/B weren't that great so I don't really disagree with the score, but the review sounded kind of dismissive of the series' staying power and considering how much of a shill this thing is to the things what the hell was I writing
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« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2010, 08:12:09 PM »

Food for Thought: Nintendo Power only gave the original pokemon games like a 7/10 or thereabouts.

I think they may've changed by then, but in the earlier years of Nintendo Power they were RIDICULOUSLY strict with scoring. Something like NBA Jam just barely broke into the 4 range, and I know Yoshi's Island got something like 3.5 for its controls.
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« Reply #80 on: September 14, 2010, 08:29:38 PM »

Nintendo Power is still strict. Metroid Other M got a 85, and Super Mario Galaxy 2 got a 95.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #81 on: September 14, 2010, 09:35:30 PM »

I don't recall NP being strict with their scores at all.  If anything, I vividly remember the magazine never giving out ANY low scores.
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Eusis
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« Reply #82 on: September 15, 2010, 01:44:49 AM »

Nintendo Power is still strict. Metroid Other M got a 85, and Super Mario Galaxy 2 got a 95.

You look at Metacritic and it's pretty much in line with the standard scores.

With that said, I think Gen may be right actually. I don't recall many above the 3 range, but I don't recall many below it either.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #83 on: September 15, 2010, 02:03:48 AM »

It was basically safe to ignore about a fifth off of whatever system NP was using to score games with at the time (though there are the occasional exception of two every so often).

Kinda like this site but here its better to ignore the first 50% of any given score rather than 20%.

Also the Pokemon thing was graded with the early to mid 90's mindset of nobody wanting to play RPGs (and the anime had yet to hit the airwaves). Go figure that those two games basically carried Nintendo through the N64 era in the US singlehandedly (save for when the occasional Zelda or WWF (as it was known as back then) game came out).


Suikoden II's story definitely deserves more than it got, but this is why we tell people to broaden their horizons and check out multiple sources for their information rather than just one guy.

But. It didn't star a brooding hero, an amnesiac, or a guy with multiple personality disorder. It didn't feature twenty left field plot twists per disk or even more than one disk. It didn't feature a plot of over 200 playing hours with about 180 of those hours consisting of boring fetch quests. It didn't feature a plot of a simple rebellion against the evil polluting empire turned vision quest to kill god. Nor did the plot reveal the origins of humanity as provided by an anime alien civilization that was destroyed, locked in unevolution, or simply crashed a forgotten cargo ship onto the planet like a hojillion years ago. And the plot wasn't even entirely centered on the main character's awkward attempts at trying to fall in love with the anime magical girl/princess while he and a bunch of plebs go chasing after some unspecified evil that's simply just misunderstood in its quest to cast everything into oblivion.

Seriously? You expected Suki II's plot to compare to that? I scoff! SCOFF!!! at your silliness.
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« Reply #84 on: September 15, 2010, 06:14:53 AM »


Suikoden II's story definitely deserves more than it got, but this is why we tell people to broaden their horizons and check out multiple sources for their information rather than just one guy.

But. It didn't star a brooding hero, an amnesiac, or a guy with multiple personality disorder. It didn't feature twenty left field plot twists per disk or even more than one disk. It didn't feature a plot of over 200 playing hours with about 180 of those hours consisting of boring fetch quests. It didn't feature a plot of a simple rebellion against the evil polluting empire turned vision quest to kill god. Nor did the plot reveal the origins of humanity as provided by an anime alien civilization that was destroyed, locked in unevolution, or simply crashed a forgotten cargo ship onto the planet like a hojillion years ago. And the plot wasn't even entirely centered on the main character's awkward attempts at trying to fall in love with the anime magical girl/princess while he and a bunch of plebs go chasing after some unspecified evil that's simply just misunderstood in its quest to cast everything into oblivion.

Seriously? You expected Suki II's plot to compare to that? I scoff! SCOFF!!! at your silliness.

Why have you got to highlight my ignorance all the time? :(
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 06:51:50 AM by Starmongoose » Logged

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Aeolus
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« Reply #85 on: September 15, 2010, 07:15:30 AM »


Suikoden II's story definitely deserves more than it got, but this is why we tell people to broaden their horizons and check out multiple sources for their information rather than just one guy.

But. It didn't star a brooding hero, an amnesiac, or a guy with multiple personality disorder. It didn't feature twenty left field plot twists per disk or even more than one disk. It didn't feature a plot of over 200 playing hours with about 180 of those hours consisting of boring fetch quests. It didn't feature a plot of a simple rebellion against the evil polluting empire turned vision quest to kill god. Nor did the plot reveal the origins of humanity as provided by an anime alien civilization that was destroyed, locked in unevolution, or simply crashed a forgotten cargo ship onto the planet like a hojillion years ago. And the plot wasn't even entirely centered on the main character's awkward attempts at trying to fall in love with the anime magical girl/princess while he and a bunch of plebs go chasing after some unspecified evil that's simply just misunderstood in its quest to cast everything into oblivion.

Seriously? You expected Suki II's plot to compare to that? I scoff! SCOFF!!! at your silliness.

Why have you got to highlight my ignorance all the time? :(

Not really. I was using your post as an excuse to make fun of the RPGs of the era. Most games from that era (especially Squeenix games) are notoriously bad at trying to be pretentious and failing miserably.

The real reasons why Suki II got bad scores was probably a combination of bad timing (came out around 2000 which was overshadowed by a ton of other games like FFIX, LoZ:MM, Chrono Cross and the PS2 was on the horizon with MGS2 and FFX in the wings), the fact that it wasn't a game in a major series, and that there weren't that many copies getting into gamer's hands (hence why copies are typically sold on E-Bay for $100+ dollars).
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« Reply #86 on: September 15, 2010, 07:50:24 AM »


Suikoden II's story definitely deserves more than it got, but this is why we tell people to broaden their horizons and check out multiple sources for their information rather than just one guy.

But. It didn't star a brooding hero, an amnesiac, or a guy with multiple personality disorder. It didn't feature twenty left field plot twists per disk or even more than one disk. It didn't feature a plot of over 200 playing hours with about 180 of those hours consisting of boring fetch quests. It didn't feature a plot of a simple rebellion against the evil polluting empire turned vision quest to kill god. Nor did the plot reveal the origins of humanity as provided by an anime alien civilization that was destroyed, locked in unevolution, or simply crashed a forgotten cargo ship onto the planet like a hojillion years ago. And the plot wasn't even entirely centered on the main character's awkward attempts at trying to fall in love with the anime magical girl/princess while he and a bunch of plebs go chasing after some unspecified evil that's simply just misunderstood in its quest to cast everything into oblivion.

Seriously? You expected Suki II's plot to compare to that? I scoff! SCOFF!!! at your silliness.

Why have you got to highlight my ignorance all the time? :(

Not really. I was using your post as an excuse to make fun of the RPGs of the era. Most games from that era (especially Squeenix games) are notoriously bad at trying to be pretentious and failing miserably.

The real reasons why Suki II got bad scores was probably a combination of bad timing (came out around 2000 which was overshadowed by a ton of other games like FFIX, LoZ:MM, Chrono Cross and the PS2 was on the horizon with MGS2 and FFX in the wings), the fact that it wasn't a game in a major series, and that there weren't that many copies getting into gamer's hands (hence why copies are typically sold on E-Bay for $100+ dollars).

I was just messin' with ya, ;). I knew you weren't making fun of me, I was just playing along with your joke.

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Eusis
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« Reply #87 on: September 15, 2010, 09:08:17 AM »

The real reasons why Suki II got bad scores was probably a combination of bad timing (came out around 2000 which was overshadowed by a ton of other games like FFIX, LoZ:MM, Chrono Cross and the PS2 was on the horizon with MGS2 and FFX in the wings), the fact that it wasn't a game in a major series, and that there weren't that many copies getting into gamer's hands (hence why copies are typically sold on E-Bay for $100+ dollars).

Nah, it came out in late 1999 but with the way the game industry works none of those games were an issue (and MGS2 and FFX wouldn't have been either). However, Final Fantasy VIII had came out then, the DC launched, and we had other significant RPG releases like Grandia hit. So did Planescape Torment, though the people that it appeals too only overlapped with Suikoden II's playerbase post-mortem I suspect. Certainly I didn't pay attention to it until years later.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 03:20:42 AM by Eusis » Logged
Aeolus
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« Reply #88 on: September 17, 2010, 06:55:52 PM »

The real reasons why Suki II got bad scores was probably a combination of bad timing (came out around 2000 which was overshadowed by a ton of other games like FFIX, LoZ:MM, Chrono Cross and the PS2 was on the horizon with MGS2 and FFX in the wings), the fact that it wasn't a game in a major series, and that there weren't that many copies getting into gamer's hands (hence why copies are typically sold on E-Bay for $100+ dollars).

Nah, it came out in late 1999 but with the way the game industry works none of those games were an issue (and MGS2 and FFX wouldn't have been either). However, Final Fantasy VIII had came out then, the DC launched, and we had other significant RPG releases like Grandia hit. So did Planescape Torment, and the people that it appeals too only overlapped with Suikoden II's playerbase post-mortem I suspect. Certainly I didn't pay attention to it until years later.

For some reason I was under the assumption that Suki II came out in 2000. Then again I don't really remember all that much from that period (or have chosen not to).
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