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Author Topic: The "Fucking JRPGs" Thread  (Read 10918 times)
MeshGearFox
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« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2010, 04:02:21 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39OW9SWmB-I <- @thoren

Seriously shit like this is why I don't get why people say ME2 is natural and has really good facial/body animation. No, it's not as outright bad as SO4's scene, but it still looks like the intro to a German porn film and I DON'T think that's the intent.

Also the black dude's face looks like it's made of jello seriously wtf.
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Sagacious-T
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« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2010, 04:15:54 PM »

^lol here's a better quality example

Mass Effect 1 Spoilers, ME2 Intro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT-FNgMZC-A

MeshGearFox after watching the detail and animation in that video (which by drawing from your previous conclusion, is bad), what would qualify as good voice acting and detail? I eagerly await your rebuttal.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 04:17:40 PM by Thoren » Logged
MeshGearFox
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« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2010, 04:42:56 PM »

Thoren:

- In terms of the animations, I still think they're really uncanny valley. Lip movement is far from fluid. Body movement is really exaggerated. Stuff like that. Also the weird... lighting system they use makes everything look glistening and... moist. Ick.

- The voice acting is fine. I think the *writing* is sub-par.

- I can't really explain why, either.

- In any case, bad dialogue, when read aloud, tends to sound REALLY bad. Even dialogue that reads completely fine can sound bad when read aloud.
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Yggdrasil
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« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2010, 04:52:12 PM »

Puff Puff action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGCIg5rkFtM
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Sagacious-T
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« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2010, 07:31:10 PM »

Thoren:

- In terms of the animations, I still think they're really uncanny valley. Lip movement is far from fluid. Body movement is really exaggerated. Stuff like that. Also the weird... lighting system they use makes everything look glistening and... moist. Ick.

- The voice acting is fine. I think the *writing* is sub-par.

- I can't really explain why, either.

- In any case, bad dialogue, when read aloud, tends to sound REALLY bad. Even dialogue that reads completely fine can sound bad when read aloud.

Can you post a good example then? An RPG.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 07:50:48 PM by Thoren » Logged
Ashton
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« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2010, 07:53:44 PM »

Even when the voice work is good, the dialogue in most JRPGs fuck it all up.

See: the new Kingdom Hearts. Pretty much every other line uttered made me gag, and it had some really nice voice talent, too: Mark Hamill and Leonard Nemoy.

Also, I don't really see what the problem with Mesh's youtube link is.
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Sagacious-T
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« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2010, 07:58:23 PM »

Even when the voice work is good, the dialogue in most JRPGs fuck it all up.

See: the new Kingdom Hearts. Pretty much every other line uttered made me gag, and it had some really nice voice talent, too: Mark Hamill and Leonard Nemoy.

Also, I don't really see what the problem with Mesh's youtube link is.

He's linking the same video I did in a response to me.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2010, 08:07:35 PM »

Well, games like Lightning Warrior Raidy and Brave Soul are certainly "f*****g" JRPGs :P *snicker*

I'm surprised no one made that obvious joke already. 
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« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2010, 08:12:31 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBXcHG973aM - This is the only example I can think of where JRPG dialogue/VA doesn't suck ass.
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Lazlowe1984
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« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2010, 08:26:03 PM »

I'm surprised no one mentioned the awful conversations in Ar Tolenico 2.

I felt sexually violated hearing the script and not in the good way
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Annubis
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« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2010, 09:16:45 PM »

I'm surprised no one mentioned the awful conversations in Ar Tolenico 2.

I felt sexually violated hearing the script and not in the good way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Iu7bTp1-nE#t=00m26s

Clearly the best VA in the whole game.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 09:23:31 PM by Annubis » Logged
MeshGearFox
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« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2010, 10:13:18 PM »

Thoren:

I could list off a number of JRPGs and WRPGs that I thought had good voicework. Good voice acting AND good writing though?

I think my biggest criteria for "good-sounding spoken dialogue" is that it doesn't sound completely scripted. Can I listen to the dialogue and think it was something people would actually say? If the people in the dialogue are supposed to know each other, do they sound like they know each other? It's not even a matter of diction so much as it is delivery, but it... they connect somehow.

Do the characters have unique vocal mannerisms and tics and whatever (and I don't mean forced shit like continuously using some favorite word or whatever)? If everyone had similar-sounding voices could you still tell who was talking just by how they stressed and paced their sentences?

Does the dialogue sound like something you'd hear in a commercial? That's bad.

To be perfectly honest I can probably think of a couple RPGs that were competent in this area but I'm not sure I can come up with any that I'd really call *good*. Atlus' games with voice acting tend to be better than most in this sense. Dragon Quest 8 was too.

WRPGs? I really have no idea.

I don't really think voice acting adds a lot to RPGs anyway. It mostly just serves to make cutscenes longer and I wish cutsches as a whole would just un-exist themselves since they're not interactive and I've kind of lost patience for non-game content in my games.
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« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2010, 10:30:57 PM »

You think DQ8 and Atlus games compare to Mass Effect 2 in terms of Voice Acting, Writing, and animation? Really? What about Cutscenes where you control the conversation? Oh wait that's called Mass Effect. Interactivity. I just beat the new DLC (Lair of the Shadow Broker) and I thought it had some of the best voice acting in a video game to date, period. Great writing, fun little playful comments while fighting, emotional scenes that really dictate a character's personality, the works. It's not perfect but to call Mass Effect 2's VA and Animaton Bad, well, you must think all games are bad then because this is one of if not the best we've gotten yet in Gaming's history.
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« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2010, 10:31:11 PM »

I thought Tales of the Abyss had pretty intelligible dialogue (especially for a translated title).  Chat was fluid, deep, and commonly political without destroying the characters' ...well, character.  You just need to put up with JRPG themes of justice and love and shit.

SInce when have games meant to be Shakespeare anyhow?
This leads back to a big debate I had for a shitty review given to Star Ocean 4: The Last Hope.  Can dialogue get any worse?  Not by much if it can... but you're missing the point.  I think a good story is a good drive to play; but I think gameplay should hold some precedence in why we play a game.  A good story is a sweet bonus, though.  Yeah, you can argue this all you want - but I think I've come to this conclusion because too many game's have a shit story nowadays anyway.  Maybe not complete "shit" so to speak, but difinely to all games give you that same story-gasm that some may have felt upon Digital Devil Saga's revelations; and quite frankly, why wait for another one when there are other games that still perform as actual "games" better than even DDS did (breaking it down, MOST of the SMT games released on PS2 were more the same when it came to combat stylings).
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2010, 11:27:44 PM »

You think DQ8 and Atlus games compare to Mass Effect 2 in terms of Voice Acting, Writing, and animation? Really? What about Cutscenes where you control the conversation? Oh wait that's called Mass Effect. Interactivity. I just beat the new DLC (Lair of the Shadow Broker) and I thought it had some of the best voice acting in a video game to date, period. Great writing, fun little playful comments while fighting, emotional scenes that really dictate a character's personality, the works. It's not perfect but to call Mass Effect 2's VA and Animaton Bad, well, you must think all games are bad then because this is one of if not the best we've gotten yet in Gaming's history.

Outside of being grammatically correct and using actual words, does anything about the dialogue in Mass Effect seriously strike you as accurately representing how people really talk?

(Dragon Quest 8 was cutsey enough that suspending disbelief wasn't that hard. ME2 is wedged pretty firmly in the uncanny valley).
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