The "Fucking JRPGs" Thread

[Dice]

As flawed as XII is, definitely one of my favorite FFs. I have no doubt that if Matsuno had stayed in the lead we would have received a better game. However, I still think the idea of having Vaan is the point of view for the story could have been a very good one. Sure it hurts the power fantasy of players who want to be the big bad knight, but if they had actually played up the uselessness of Vaan could have been very interesting. Imagine playing FF4 from the perspective Edward except you're not as big of a sissy. I actually think that sounds pretty cool.

That sounds fucking awful. Never say that again.

I'm sick to death with the incompetent hero thing. I want a hero who kicks ass, takes names and still manages to be a nice guy in the end.

Yuri!

[Ashtrot]

I'm sick to death with the incompetent hero thing. I want a hero who kicks ass, takes names and still manages to be a nice guy in the end.

Plenty of those in both JRPGs and WRPGs.

[Starmongoose]

Yuri!

 

Totes!

I'm sick to death with the incompetent hero thing. I want a hero who kicks ass, takes names and still manages to be a nice guy in the end.

Plenty of those in both JRPGs and WRPGs.

Which? Incompetent heroes or kick-ass heroes? I'm sure there is a large amount of both. I don't dispute that, but if I had to say which one I am sick of seeing, well.

[Dice]

Aww, and there goes my long post on bruised nipples....

[ValendianKnight]

I dunno, even though he was on the cover, and you HAD to use in towns, I never considered Vaan the main character for FFXII at all. It seemed to be a lot more about Ashe to me, so I ended up having her as my lead for pretty much the whole game. I personally wish there were more FF games like XII, just with more back story for the characters(my main complaint for XII).

[Sagacious-T]

I dunno, even though he was on the cover, and you HAD to use in towns, I never considered Vaan the main character for FFXII at all. It seemed to be a lot more about Ashe to me, so I ended up having her as my lead for pretty much the whole game. I personally wish there were more FF games like XII, just with more back story for the characters(my main complaint for XII).

We've talked about this to hell and back but Vaan and Penelo were inserted characters from the higher ups in Square-Enix management. Matsuno intended Basch to be the main character.

I'm sick to death with the incompetent hero thing. I want a hero who kicks ass, takes names and still manages to be a nice guy in the end.

Not all games are like that. I think those apply more to RPGs about teenagers getting their village burned down and just not knowing what to do, stupid overdone scenarios. Go play as Commander Shepard and fuck a few aliens in the arse.



Edit: Just read Dice's post, LMAO! Fucking Square-Enix. The Characters were REALLY bad in FF13, I mean worse than usual. Decent voice acting and good graphics hid it for a while but fucking christ they are so cliched and vapid. The only one I somewhat like personalty-wise is Sazh. The Villains got like no screen time and there was no suspense between the good and bad guys, besides some metaphysical asshole old man that floats around laughing at them then proceeds to get his decorative teeth kicked in.

In short: Fuck FF13

[GrimReality]

I know this is the "Fucking JRPGs" thread, but, man, am I getting tired of the constant FF ragging going on around here lately. It's like if you want to be cool, you have to HATE SquareEnix/Final Fantasy.
Now, I've barely even played FFXIII(maybe 4 hours in), but I like it well enough so far.
Previous to that, I recall enjoying pretty much every single FF game I played. I thought FFXII was fantastic, minus some nitpicks. I may not enjoy them as much nowadays, but that doesn't matter, as I don't replay games.
Some of you people seem impossible to please. They're freakin' video games. Sure, my tastes have changed a bit over the years, and I now gravitate more towards Western style games, but come ON.
If you hate it so much, why talk about it over and over and over again? The constant negativity really is getting tiresome.

[Kevadu]

I have to join in on the FFXII-was-a-good-game camp.  Vaan was pathetic as a lead and Penelo was even less-developed than Vaan, but if you ignored those two the other four characters were good.  The game had a lot of things going for it, too.  I loved the massive world to explore that actually felt alive.  I love politcally-themed plots and I just wish the plot in FFXII had more time devoted to it after the first 10-20 hours of the game.   And I've said this before but I think FFXII easily had the best dungeon-crawling of any FF game ever.  It was not a perfect game, but I very much enjoyed playing it.

Totally hated XIII, though.  XIII was like the anti-XII.  It got as far away as is even theoretically possible from the vast open-world feel and instead of having inadequate plot development it constantly bombarded you with pointless cutscenes...

[Starmongoose]

I know this is the "Fucking JRPGs" thread, but, man, am I getting tired of the constant FF ragging going on around here lately. It's like if you want to be cool, you have to HATE SquareEnix/Final Fantasy.
Now, I've barely even played FFXIII(maybe 4 hours in), but I like it well enough so far.
Previous to that, I recall enjoying pretty much every single FF game I played. I thought FFXII was fantastic, minus some nitpicks. I may not enjoy them as much nowadays, but that doesn't matter, as I don't replay games.
Some of you people seem impossible to please. They're freakin' video games. Sure, my tastes have changed a bit over the years, and I now gravitate more towards Western style games, but come ON.
If you hate it so much, why talk about it over and over and over again? The constant negativity really is getting tiresome.

I talk about how Final Fantasy failed a lot because I feel that they are not beyond redemption, and it hurts that they have chance after chance to make something great again, but miss the point entirely. It's about disappointment rather than hatred. For me at least.

Don't be insulting by claiming the rest of us can only not like Final Fantasy XIII because we are trying to fit in with the cool kids.

[dyeager]

Put me in the loved FFXII camp - I loved the gameplay in that game personally.

After you finally get access to all of the options in FFXIII (which takes way, way too long, like 10-15 hours) the gameplay is actually pretty interesting in my opinion and the game gets more enjoyable.

But gameplay is always, ALWAYS, the #1 factor when I'm playing a game. A good plot is bonus, a horrible plot a minus, but gameplay has to be #1, especially if you're expected to spend so much time with a game like you are with RPGs in general.

I totally get why people don't like those games though. If you're looking for outstanding plot, you can certainly do better than this.

[Sagacious-T]

My Issue with FF12 was how vapid the storyline and plot felt, and how slow it moved. They literally fed the player a few lines and then sent you into a dungeon that lasted hours. It was like spreading a tiny little sliver of butter over a piece of toast to the point where you couldn't taste it anymore.

Also those chests you weren't supposed to open? What the fuck.

Also, gameplay, really? More like set up a bunch of gambits and run around while watching Friends reruns.

[Cyril]

FFXII quite nicely filled my obsessive-compulsive need to collect everything.  I love to break the game by obtaining extremely powerful weapons halfway through. The game wasn't particularly hard in the first place, so it's not like the weapon did much for you, anyway.

My problem with XII is that it started off so great, but I felt like the story fell apart after the first half.  That and I love Penelo. I wish she had more of a point to her.  She could have been Tifa-like character who is both strong and sensitive, but at the same time not completely dependent on the Hero.  Instead they did nothing with her.

Also seconding the "WTF" on not opening chests.  While, admittedly, you could get the weapon elsewhere, not opening chests was just strange.

[Kevadu]

You know, if it wasn't for forums like this I wouldn't even know about the not opening chests thing.  I never consult guides and things my first time through a game unless I really am stuck.  Just play it normally and enjoy it.

[dyeager]

My Issue with FF12 was how vapid the storyline and plot felt, and how slow it moved. They literally fed the player a few lines and then sent you into a dungeon that lasted hours. It was like spreading a tiny little sliver of butter over a piece of toast to the point where you couldn't taste it anymore.

Also those chests you weren't supposed to open? What the fuck.

Also, gameplay, really? More like set up a bunch of gambits and run around while watching Friends reruns.

The setting up gambits part was what I liked. I mean, that pretty much was the gameplay right? Setting up the gambits for whatever you were trying to accomplish at the time. I'm definitely not in the camp that needs to press "Fight" 100 times, I like the streamlining that the FF series are going for, even if the execution is pretty damn far from perfect. Your point about the watching Friends reruns while running around for example is well taken - if you're going to streamline the combat process with things like gambits (good idea), why do I still need to grind at all (bad idea). Pick a theme and stick with it.

But I thought the boss fights were very fun, trying to tweak your gambits correctly and maximize damage and such I actually did enjoy, especially trying to get things just right for some of the hidden bosses.

There is really nothing I can say to defend the plot - it's pretty silly. But again I'm definitely the gaming type that is more than willing to overlook a dumb plot if I'm enjoying the gameplay itself. There's exceptions that cut both ways on that obviously - a superb story + terrible gameplay, well, I'll suffer through the game if I simply must know what happens next.

But given the option I'll take superb gameplay with horrible plot every time.

-Max Thunderbrew

[Sagacious-T]

I don't think the gameplay was bad, just that the way it was setup was a bit.. flawed. Maybe a bit more active role in the combat in addition to gambits as well as a bit less grinding would have bumped it up for me. FF12, in my eyes, is like a recipe that just went a little wrong. All it needs is a half cup more of Character development, a bit more plot mixture, and a dash of more gameplay and it would have been one of the best Final Fantasy games ever. I wouldn't even have minded Vaan as much if they just gave him some kind of purpose,