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Author Topic: the new fire emblem game...  (Read 2725 times)
Alisha
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« on: September 21, 2010, 07:42:56 PM »

with a title that is way to long still sucks! i feel like i wasted my money importing it. its just so behind the times from a gameplay perspective.being a remake is no excuse just look at the MK remake.(still cant rescue or move after an action with a mounted unit) and the feature im most interested in requires you to beat the game on hard wich is ultimately what led me to hate the game since i normally would never play on hard D: well at least you can active casual mode on hard. also this probally wont be a problem for most of you but the game is incredibly sexist compared to more recent FE games. basically if there a male and female of the same class chances are the male is superior.this applies to my unit as well simply due to the fact that class selection for female my units blows ass compared to males.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 10:58:43 PM »

I am facepalming at this post so hard right now.

FEDS2 was built around the same general gameplay structure as the game its remaking aka FE3. That means that rescuing and moving again weren't implemented yet (didn't happen til FE5). This is the exact same problem I had with everyone's problems with FEDS1. Everyone wants all the mechanics of the latest and greatest games in what is essentially a reskinned version of the original made a little less utterly archaic and obtuse for people not accustom to NES-level pioneering gameplay mechanics.

The one thing I'm glad they've gotten rid of in this version was that ridiculous dismount mechanic that greatly reduced the effectiveness of mounted characters due to reduced stats and mandating weapons that the characters are much less proficient with. (Well maybe not 'glad' but I can understand and accept why they did it.)

Also how is this game incredibly sexist when you've got people like Catria putting pretty much everybody to shame?
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 11:08:31 PM »

I'm just pissed that they skipped FE2 ("Fire Emblem Gaiden" for NES) in their remaking scheme.

That's the only FE I've beaten, and frankly I thought it was fantastic.
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 12:17:36 AM »

Highest Growth Rates in Mystery of the Emblem:

STR - Jake (However, Est actually has the second highest in the game, which is unusual for the female characters)
MAG - Malliesia and Elice are tied for highest magic, both female.
SKL - Palla, female, with about 6 other female characters come at a tied close second
SPD - Shiida, female
Luck - Tiki, female, plus she is Mankete
DEF - Macellan, male (Though, if you aren't a Knight you aren't really going to compete in this)
RES - Wrys, male

So to me, it seems to be pretty balanced, with female characters excelling in magic, speed, skill and luck, While male characters excel in Strength and defense.

This is truly nothing out of the ordinary for a JRPG. I fail to see how it is sexist. Maybe if ALL the female characters were magic users, but they aren' there are melee classes there, and while they may not be the highest in terms of strength, they could still outlast a male character if used correctly by playing up their superior SPD and SKL.
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« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2010, 01:39:17 AM »

Alisha reminds me of the people that think anatomy professors are sexist because they teach people that women have less muscle growth and a wider pelvis that makes it harder for them to walk.

Quote
FEDS2 was built around the same general gameplay structure as the game its remaking aka FE3. That means that rescuing and moving again weren't implemented yet (didn't happen til FE5). This is the exact same problem I had with everyone's problems with FEDS1. Everyone wants all the mechanics of the latest and greatest games in what is essentially a reskinned version of the original made a little less utterly archaic and obtuse for people not accustom to NES-level pioneering gameplay mechanics.

People liked, and want those mechanics because they made the gameplay deeper. I fail to see how the game is superior to what it would've been because it lacks these options. Why are you encouraging developers to be lazy with their remakes?
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Aeolus
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 06:23:28 PM »

Quote
FEDS2 was built around the same general gameplay structure as the game its remaking aka FE3. That means that rescuing and moving again weren't implemented yet (didn't happen til FE5). This is the exact same problem I had with everyone's problems with FEDS1. Everyone wants all the mechanics of the latest and greatest games in what is essentially a reskinned version of the original made a little less utterly archaic and obtuse for people not accustom to NES-level pioneering gameplay mechanics.

People liked, and want those mechanics because they made the gameplay deeper. I fail to see how the game is superior to what it would've been because it lacks these options. Why are you encouraging developers to be lazy with their remakes?

So then you would be keen to the idea of remaking FFI with either FFVIII's Junction system, FFXII's Gambits, and/or FFXIII's weapon building?

Or how about a remake of FF Adventure but with SoM's weapon/magic skill leveling system, multiple upgradable weapons, and charge attacks, SD3's classes, day/night, and treasure mechanics, and LoM's forging/tempering/fruit&vegetable growing/useless&resource-hogging ally mechanics and fugly character designs while also including a pared down quest to make room for two protagonists, updates to the storyline to put it in lime with today's 'all adversity can only be conquered through the power of friendship' PSA, as well as making it more palatable to today's youth by making all the non-finalboss villains into not-villains, retconning a few deaths because separate protags need equal amount of useless/resource-hogging allies, and making the male into a deposed prince trying to rescue his daddy because he wasn't predestined nor cliched enough...

Oh wait.

The tl;dr is that old games not originally designed to accommodate newer features have a hard time accommodating newer features shoehorned into them without breaking in half or becoming bloated as hell.
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 07:16:33 PM »

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The tl;dr is that old games not originally designed to accommodate newer features have a hard time accommodating newer features shoehorned into them without breaking in half or becoming bloated as hell.

Yeah, it's not like they're already adding in systems that change the game significantly like a class change system or something stupid like that. They're not even adding in new characters to throw off the character balance they already had! They're also not letting you see the stats of your attack before you execute it, you gotta work it all out in your head before you do it.

I knew that your response would be something along the lines of "oh well how would you feel if they put FF#'s systems in FF1", and I really have to ask you if you honestly think putting in the gambit system into FF1 is at all comparable to keeping gameplay aspects that deepened strategy in what's called a strategy RPG, when every single FE game share identical basic gameplay (and thus pretty much all of them can accommodate such changes without a lot of tweaking to balance). Games don't exist in a vacuum.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 08:17:34 PM »

Quote
The tl;dr is that old games not originally designed to accommodate newer features have a hard time accommodating newer features shoehorned into them without breaking in half or becoming bloated as hell.

Yeah, it's not like they're already adding in systems that change the game significantly like a class change system or something stupid like that. They're not even adding in new characters to throw off the character balance they already had! They're also not letting you see the stats of your attack before you execute it, you gotta work it all out in your head before you do it.

I knew that your response would be something along the lines of "oh well how would you feel if they put FF#'s systems in FF1", and I really have to ask you if you honestly think putting in the gambit system into FF1 is at all comparable to keeping gameplay aspects that deepened strategy in what's called a strategy RPG, when every single FE game share identical basic gameplay (and thus pretty much all of them can accommodate such changes without a lot of tweaking to balance). Games don't exist in a vacuum.

Just as I knew that once again you've completely missed the point in the most spectacular way possible.

First off Sedger and Wolf illustrate my point precisely (though in H5 mode they become a necessity as they're the only people in your party really capable of taking more than two hits early on).

The new characters are a complete non-factor given how they are gained.

The user interface is one of the least game balance changing changes anybody can make.

The gambit system was something people bitched and whined about FFXII so inserting that into FFI would've caused more bitching and whining. Additionally saying that FF games have changed much over the years is a gross overstatement. They've gotten rid of MP charges per spell level. You might be able to change classes during gameplay instead of making one promotion for everybody at a certain point. There are now 1001 additional items alongside potions, antidotes, tents, and gold needles. But they are completely superfluous now thanks to MP being a breeze to replenish at savepoints. And there are the occasional equitable macguffins that confer magic and possibly abilities (though probably not permanently). Also ATB and the fact that attacks can retarget when their original target croaks. And finally there are millions of hours of really boring voiced cutscenes instead of a textbox telling you the exact same thing. Otherwise they're pretty damn similar to each other (save for XI which is online and multiplayer).

I suppose that next you'll be whining that FEDS2 should've had stamina from FE5 again or a generational mechanic like FE4 or even the constitution stat from FEs 6-8.

Besides there's one other possibility that you've never considered, and that is that the DS games are serving as a testing grounds for new gameplay concepts for FE11 when they eventually get around to making it (effectively the same principle as the DS SRW games). They already have solid games as a constant and they can add a few new variables to see what works and what would be too gamebreaking. And in this case adding too many variables can cause the developers and players to lose sight of the constant.
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 08:56:54 PM »

It's funny how you're claiming I'm missing the point when you are doing the same thing- try answering the damn questions posed to you:

1. How is leaving how gameplay aspects such as unit rescues somehow making it a better game
2. How is the gambit system from FF12 being put in FF1 in any way comparable to keeping gameplay changes to two games that have identical basic gameplay

Fire Emblem was one of the first SJRPGs ever made, and there is no beauty in its simplicity. Your logic seems to be that somehow they had some sort of amazing, perfect balance created in the first game that would be thrown into chaos if they added newer gameplay aspects that pretty much nobody disliked and encouraged more complicated strategic thinking in what's called a strategy RPG, and my response is that not only are they rebuilding the game anyway, but these changes would only deepen gameplay in the same way the class change system did.

As to the idea that somehow these games are experimenting with new concepts in the games, that doesn't excuse the fact that these games will end up feeling very bare-bones and boring to a lot of players because of it. Also, the problem isn't just that it feels bare-bones compared to other FEs- it feels bare bones compared to a huge amount of the other SRPGs you could be playing. Players like to think about more than just how you need to end your turn 1 space outside the enemy's movement range.
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2010, 11:29:28 PM »

Hey, both of you. Quit the passive-aggressive bullshit. Thank you kindly.
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Alisha
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 04:33:04 PM »

Highest Growth Rates in Mystery of the Emblem:

STR - Jake (However, Est actually has the second highest in the game, which is unusual for the female characters)
MAG - Malliesia and Elice are tied for highest magic, both female.
SKL - Palla, female, with about 6 other female characters come at a tied close second
SPD - Shiida, female
Luck - Tiki, female, plus she is Mankete
DEF - Macellan, male (Though, if you aren't a Knight you aren't really going to compete in this)
RES - Wrys, male

So to me, it seems to be pretty balanced, with female characters excelling in magic, speed, skill and luck, While male characters excel in Strength and defense.

This is truly nothing out of the ordinary for a JRPG. I fail to see how it is sexist. Maybe if ALL the female characters were magic users, but they aren' there are melee classes there, and while they may not be the highest in terms of strength, they could still outlast a male character if used correctly by playing up their superior SPD and SKL.

you cant just state the growths without taking into consideration caps. sure est has high str growth but eventually she is going to run into a cap.
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Alisha
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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2010, 04:53:43 PM »

Alisha reminds me of the people that think anatomy professors are sexist because they teach people that women have less muscle growth and a wider pelvis that makes it harder for them to walk.

Quote
FEDS2 was built around the same general gameplay structure as the game its remaking aka FE3. That means that rescuing and moving again weren't implemented yet (didn't happen til FE5). This is the exact same problem I had with everyone's problems with FEDS1. Everyone wants all the mechanics of the latest and greatest games in what is essentially a reskinned version of the original made a little less utterly archaic and obtuse for people not accustom to NES-level pioneering gameplay mechanics.

People liked, and want those mechanics because they made the gameplay deeper. I fail to see how the game is superior to what it would've been because it lacks these options. Why are you encouraging developers to be lazy with their remakes?

the problem isnt just statistical. for example only male mages can use excalibur.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2010, 05:29:15 PM »

Alisha reminds me of the people that think anatomy professors are sexist because they teach people that women have less muscle growth and a wider pelvis that makes it harder for them to walk.

Quote
FEDS2 was built around the same general gameplay structure as the game its remaking aka FE3. That means that rescuing and moving again weren't implemented yet (didn't happen til FE5). This is the exact same problem I had with everyone's problems with FEDS1. Everyone wants all the mechanics of the latest and greatest games in what is essentially a reskinned version of the original made a little less utterly archaic and obtuse for people not accustom to NES-level pioneering gameplay mechanics.

People liked, and want those mechanics because they made the gameplay deeper. I fail to see how the game is superior to what it would've been because it lacks these options. Why are you encouraging developers to be lazy with their remakes?

the problem isnt just statistical. for example only male mages can use excalibur.

And only female mages can use Aura, and there's even a sword only females can use and is pretty damn powerful in its own right...

You're right. This game is sexist.
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2010, 01:31:42 PM »

Using sedgar/wolf is not 'necessary' in H5.

The 3 best combat units in the FE 3 remake are Catria, Palla, and Shiida.  My Unit can also be a ridiculously good female unit if you choose.  Excalibur is a useful tome but not extremely important long term because your bow users can also kill fliers.
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Aeolus
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2010, 06:28:09 PM »

Using sedgar/wolf is not 'necessary' in H5.

I know they're not. I just like having some breathing room without having to burn off an otherwise useless benchwarmer (or only ever bringing in five units).
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