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Author Topic: As I plan my next RPG, I could use a bit of input from everyone. :)  (Read 2353 times)
Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2010, 01:19:10 PM »

To me, the most important thing in an SRPG is to downplay the importance of levelling up.  Something like the way Yggdra Union or Super Robot Taisen works, where you do gain levels and they do mean something, but if your strategy isn't sound you won't ever be able to beat your opponent no matter how much you level up.  Strategy RPG's should be about strategy, not about how much time you've spent arbitrarily killing enemies over and over.

As for story/character preferences, I don't prefer one thing over another, as long as they're done well and the system works.  Yggdra Union has very little customization in terms of your units and army, but the gameplay and world-building is fantastic.  Super Robot Taisen has pretty basic gameplay, but all the little extras (skill points, hidden bonuses, etc) and fairly deep character customization works really well.

One thing I feel I should mention is that I've always been a big fan and supporter of "heavy customization-lite".  For an example of this, look at Breath of Fire 3's Master system.  Each character has their own special class, stat build, and array of special attacks, but by training characters under different masters, you can transform them over time into completely different characters.  Garr will never be a master spellslinger like Nina or Momo, but depending on how you traing him through masters he can either ignore Magic completely or become at least mildly competent with the couple spells he has.  Even if you train him under Emitai from level 1, he's still big, strong, fighter Garr, but you have options in how he ends up.  It's a very flexible system and I really enjoyed using it.  See also: Super Robot Taisen OG 1 & 2's Pilot Point system, and FFX's Sphere Grid before it completely opens up at the endgame.
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OkamiGeisha
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« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2010, 01:23:19 PM »

I don't ever get sick of JRPGs, cliches and all.  But perhaps the majority of RPG fans would enjoy something different.  If you could make a game with pretty standard battle mechanics, but write a really original story, I think that would get a lot of attention.  If you can write an original story AND an original strategy mechanics that would be accessible, more power to you!!  

I tend to suck at most platformers.  The only one I've beaten easily is Super Mario Galaxy 2, so merging the genres would be a turn off for me because I'd question whether or not I'd be able to finish it.  
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2010, 02:05:44 PM »

What an RPG with a huge cast of characters (like suikoden) but each character could do one, and only one, thing?

For instance, some characters can attack up close. some can attack at range. Some can heal. Some can cast fireball. But each character is only capable of doing *one* thing. This ensures that, even with a large cast, you don't have a lot of redundancy. It also forces you to strategize and use your units sanely since you have no general purpose dudes.

Also I'm tired of RPGs in general sort of and I'm planning on making a completely statless "RPG" if I ever get assed into finishing the engine I made for it. But this is my pet project and if you steal it I will like... i fuckken cutchoo. So don't be unbroly.

Quote
Do you think an action RPG platformer could be viable if it was only for PC?

Absolutely .

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The one big hangup with action RPG platformer is that PCs don't have controllers, and that the downloadable PC game market is dominated by non-reflex-based games.

1. You can play platformers without controllers.
2. No, reflex-based games are huge sellers. The MARKET is dominated by non-reflex-based games but most of these are Polish shovelware RPG and strategy games that nobody actually buys.
3. Seriously, the DOS era was completely dominated by platformers. People played them all the time, and nobody had gamepads back then.
4. Cave Story and Spelunky were sort of big hits with the indie crowd and neither of those really support gamepads.
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harmonic42
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« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2010, 02:36:38 PM »

Mesh, thanks for your post.

Do you by chance have links to anything regarding your claims about action-based games in the market? It's not that I don't believe you, but you are speaking with such conviction that it leads me to believe you are privvy to some juicy info.

I really want to feel confident about action RPGs because deep down, that's really what I want to make the most... though it only slightly edges out tactical.
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CDFN
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« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2010, 02:59:50 PM »

Hm, as far as characters are concerned, I don't like huge casts, give me only half a dozen characters tops but make them all very different from each other and useful, no filler.
The system itself should be accessible, easy to understand, but deep. Don't let the game become boring in the long run, give me the sense that my characters are evolving and that I'm making progress.
Good pacing is very important, always keep that in mind. Try to come up with charismatic characters and avoid cliches as much as possible. I just played the demo of costume quest and was pleasently surprised, I'm sure the people behind it where in the same spot you are now when they started and if the demo is any indication they came up with something really cool.

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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2010, 06:51:45 PM »

Quote
Do you by chance have links to anything regarding your claims about action-based games in the market? It's not that I don't believe you, but you are speaking with such conviction that it leads me to believe you are privvy to some juicy info.

I don't, it's just that like, if you look at GOG or Steam or GamersGate or Impulse, there's a disproportionate amount of really awful Eastern European Shovelware* compared to actually good games, and a disproportionate amount of the Eastern European Shovelware is comprised of RPGs and strategy games. There's a lot of them but I REALLY have a hard time imagining that any of them sell that much.

On the other hand, from what I've seen, people do actually buy the cute/charming/interesting action-based indie games, be they side scrollers, lighter RTSes, or shmups.

Of course, some of the highest-grossing games as of late haven't really been twitch action either. For instance, a lot of casual games aren't really reflex heavy, although a lot of them are faster paced or action-oriented.

You also have Minecraft, which is... it has a mode that's more action oriented but it's also sort of an FPS about building stuff. The dude that made it's made something like... 6 million USD off of that. About three million of that has been in the last couple of weeks.

Generally speaking though, action-based games tend to have wider appeal since they don't require a lot of patience. An action-sidescroller-RPG will probably be a lot more pick-up-and-play than something like Mount & Blade (which, from what I saw, is actually pretty reflex heavy as well, but just has gobs of *things* to deal with). As long as you don't really make it TO reflex driven, or... well, don't make it Nintendo hard. Make it challenging, but fair. Or multiple difficulty levels. Whatever.

Also, just traditionally, action games tend to sell better than non-action games.

* Not saying all Eastern European games are bad. A lot of it's good. I'm strictly speaking about the *shovelware* here.
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MindCandy
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« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2010, 12:36:10 AM »

1 - No Children! For the love of god, I am so sick of the friggin 10 year old chosen one out to save the world.

2 - no checkerboard. Yes, I know it's an old strategy RPG staple, but please consider thinking outside the box on this one. There's plenty of ways to control character movement without using hexes or grids.

3- real characters, real stories, real options. I know a lot of people like building an army by recruting soldiers and training them from scratch, but with a little work, you could make all the options accessable this way and build them into real characters that have scripts and personality. If you MUST make a recruit system, then make the recruits basic like they would be in an rts, and make sacrificing them a necessary tactical decision.

4 - it's my personal belief that strat RPG gamers like to take their time and consider things. Keep this in mind if you are including action elements. There's tactical decisions to be made in action games to be sure, but people playing strat rpgs are usually looking for thought out decisions rather than twitch tactical responses.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2010, 12:43:29 AM »

Actually the best advice is to probably just make the game that YOU want to make.

That's not to say that you shouldn't take advice. Rather, make the game you want to make, show early versions to people, and improve the game based on the feedback.

Don't pander to an audience. If your game is good, it'll sell.
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Yoda
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« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2010, 12:48:03 AM »

If a strat rpg have more environmental interaction.
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Dincrest
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« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2010, 07:09:59 PM »

Actually the best advice is to probably just make the game that YOU want to make.

That's not to say that you shouldn't take advice. Rather, make the game you want to make, show early versions to people, and improve the game based on the feedback.

Don't pander to an audience. If your game is good, it'll sell.

That's a good sentiment.  Sometimes we think we know what we want in an RPG but when it happens it becomes a "be careful what you wish for" scenario.  Perhaps I myself did the same with my own kneejerk response.  

That being said, the biggie for me is always writing.  And if Deadly Sin: Shining Faith is any indication, Harmonic made the effort to create more adult characters with more mature struggles.  For example, I liked how the game wasn't afraid to present, say, one playable character's secret battle with drug addiction.  But I wonder if he wanted to push some of that rawer, grittier, painfully human stuff further than he did but held back because of some kind of adherence to convention?  Like, I love that the game wants to go "there" but may be hesitant to?  My favorite parts of the game were the internal struggle stuff like the aforementioned character's drug addiction, his girlfriend questioning the nature of their relationship, etc.
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« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2010, 08:23:35 PM »

Harm, I had the same innitial reaction as Dinc, and I'd like to add to that. The thing that turns me off about the tactical RPG genre isn't actually the tactical aspect, but the lack of other elements that really draw me into RPGs, namely exploration. With the exception of Arc the Lad, Bahamut Lagoon, and a few others that Dinc mentioned, all tRPGs tend to strip away the non-battle elements of the RPG genre. I like to experience a rich environment, explore it's boundaries and map things out in my head (I also like doing this in real life, BTW). Even if the story progression is linear, which I happen to think works more often then not, I like to explore. I happen to also like being strategic in my battle planning, and that attracts me to tRPGs, but when choosing between battle mechanics and exploration, I will ALWAYS choose exploration, which is why I hardly ever play tRPGs. I think this is true for many others as well.

Furthermore, there's always something kind of artificial about the way tactical battles take place. It's as if the characters all got together and said, "okay", now it's time for battle mode!" and then you do that for 5 minutes before returning to the map. It's disjointed and disorienting. What I think would be interesting is to figure out a way of creating an exploritory world in which tacticle RPG battles just tend to take shape organically.

Here's one idea: have the basic gameplay be that of an action RPG, while you go around attacking single, small enemies. But once the characters are being bombarded by enough, the player can decide to become strategic in their style, slowing things down to take the time and plan battle strategy.
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« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2010, 08:53:05 PM »

Furthermore, there's always something kind of artificial about the way tactical battles take place. It's as if the characters all got together and said, "okay", now it's time for battle mode!" and then you do that for 5 minutes before returning to the map. It's disjointed and disorienting. What I think would be interesting is to figure out a way of creating an exploritory world in which tacticle RPG battles just tend to take shape organically.

Here's one idea: have the basic gameplay be that of an action RPG, while you go around attacking single, small enemies. But once the characters are being bombarded by enough, the player can decide to become strategic in their style, slowing things down to take the time and plan battle strategy.

Check out Shiren The Wanderer, it's almost exactly what you're describing.  Each move you make is a turn, but they flow out of you as if you were playing an action game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISS30c_WVsI
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« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2010, 09:06:37 PM »

Check out Shiren The Wanderer, it's almost exactly what you're describing.  Each move you make is a turn, but they flow out of you as if you were playing an action game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISS30c_WVsI

It's called a rougelike.  It's a whole genre.  A very old genre.
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« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2010, 01:34:08 PM »

Check out Shiren The Wanderer, it's almost exactly what you're describing.  Each move you make is a turn, but they flow out of you as if you were playing an action game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISS30c_WVsI

It's called a rougelike.  It's a whole genre.  A very old genre.

I know that.  Baroque doesn't have SRPG style movement like Shiren, or else I'd have promoted that instead.
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« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2010, 02:21:26 PM »

Check out Shiren The Wanderer, it's almost exactly what you're describing.  Each move you make is a turn, but they flow out of you as if you were playing an action game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISS30c_WVsI

It's called a rougelike.  It's a whole genre.  A very old genre.

I know that.  Baroque doesn't have SRPG style movement like Shiren, or else I'd have promoted that instead.

I don't even understand your comment.  Who said anything about Baroque?
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