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Author Topic: Triggers and Crosses, the wonderful and horrible universe of the Chrono series.  (Read 8677 times)
Yggdrasil
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« on: October 23, 2010, 12:38:21 PM »

The good (and probably crazy) people at socks make people sexy did another article about one of the biggest series that Square has ever made. And maybe the only one that was worth you time (oh, what? Final Fantasy you say? ...eh. Final Fantasy IV, VI and VII were good,  VII being "...quite possibly the greatest game ever made". And that one between VIII and X was good too, but after that, shit happens).

from the Chrono Trigger article:

Chrono Trigger remains the definitive Japanese RPG. It encapsulaes everything about the genre that ever made it worthwhile and sidesteps the excesses, identity crises, and creative congealment that have come to stigmatize console RPGs as some of the most maligned and stagnant games of recent years. If I were to recommend a single console RPG for the most casual or novice gamer I knew, the words "Final Fantasy" wouldn't cross my mind for even a second.

Mother 2 and 3 are pretty close to the Chrono Trigger status in my book. But like someone said on YouTube "lol opinions".

from the Chrono Cross article:

Is Chrono Cross a failure?

Probably. I sure as hell wouldn't call it a success, at any rate. "Well-intentioned clusterfuck" seem a more apt designation.

Kato was never allowed to direct another game. (He left Square around 2002 and now only works for them on a freelance basis, doing story plotting for some of their smaller games.) Even during Square Enix's ongoing "WE NEED MORE SEQUELS OF EVERYTHING" phase, it refuses to touch Chrono, with the exception of the "hey let's put out a fourteen-year-old game that a thousands of people will buy for the second or third time" Nintendo DS port of Chrono Trigger. A Square Enix executive has made a statement that goes something along the lines of, "if you want to see another Chrono game, buy more DS copies of Chrono Trigger to convince us it'll be worth our while." Cross evidently left a very sour taste on Square's executive palate.


Choose thy article and discuss.
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xXMelancholiaXx
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« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2010, 01:05:30 PM »

I always preferred Chrono Cross over Chrono Trigger but they are both good games. It's ashame that they are putting such a great series on the shelf like that. :(
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Mickeymac92
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« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2010, 01:33:49 PM »

I loved Chrono Trigger and I always wanted to give Chrono Cross a try. I almost biught it one time at a used game shop, but I was a few bucks short to cover the tax.:( I don't care what some people say, Chrono Cross actually sounds like an interesting and fun game.
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« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2010, 01:36:08 PM »

Normally I can't stand over-analytical deconstructions of video games (or any other medium, for that matter) but I read through the whole Chrono Cross article (and it ain't short...) and really enjoyed it.  It's very well-written and I think it expresses a lot of the problems and successes of that game very well.  Thanks for the link.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2010, 02:09:51 PM »

CT sucks and I can't see how it would possibly appeal to anyone over the age of 13.

CC is also terrible but not quite AS terrible as CT was.
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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2010, 02:19:34 PM »

As much as I had fun with both games I honestly don't want Square near the franchise. Let it rest in peace.

In regards to the articles, I agree that the highest point in Cross was the end of disc 1. The Dead Sea was so atmospheric, the boss battle near the end was so depressing. I'd like to see a game based on a discarded world, a place where all unwanted things are kept. Now that would be great.
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kyuusei
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« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2010, 07:03:29 PM »

Chrono Cross did a lot of things right. I thought they had a good direction going with the story and then it turned into a weird clusterfuck late in the game and I was still trying to figure it out a year or two later. One thing that always bothered me was that it had too many damn useless playable characters. Maybe characters period. The battle concept was great, but a) the music was irritating to say the least, and b) the battles themselves dragged at times. It was an interesting game all around, not to mention as a CT sequel...

The Dead Sea was so atmospheric, the boss battle near the end was so depressing. I'd like to see a game based on a discarded world, a place where all unwanted things are kept. Now that would be great.

I love that. One of my favourite parts of the game. Tough battle too if I recall. The game, visually, was quite nice. If you just look at screenshots, you'd think the game would be just as upbeat and cheery like Chrono Trigger was.

I also liked the switch that the article mentions, it was a neat twist.

I probably would have played Cross again to figure it all out, but New Game + essentially broke my PSX.
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Dice
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« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2010, 08:01:26 PM »

I hate this argument.  I think it was summed up BEST by when mentioning how all people want is a Chrono Trigger 2, not a new vision.  But shit like that WOULDN't work on a PSX, it was time to move on and I thought Cross adapted 3D as well as 2D Zelda games went in 3D.

SPOILS??? (minor)

I thought the story picked up on a curious fragment, and the connection to the original story were appreciated and deep, hearing about schala's fate was also intriguing.  A bad ending?  Most definitely - it wraps little up.  Bad story telling?  Most certainly, you kinda just go one place to another, and all major plot point are either too poorly or quickly explained.  There was a lot less world to travel and with a lot less variety that the concept of "time travel" offered so nicely by travelling to different epochs.  I really think people are waaay to critical on the game, it was much more fresh (gameplay wise) than it's predecessor at the very least.

I think it would be stupid NOT to continue it - GIVEN THE PRODUCERS (especially with how Squeenix's games are nowadays, all quality, no fun) GET THEIR HEAD OUT OF THEIR ASSES AND ACTUALLY MAKE SOMETHING WORTH PLAYING.

I'm trying to think what Trigger did SO WELL, so amazingly, so astonishingly, so ineffably so as to make Cross be thrown into the toiler so much by a number of gamers on every other level.
Cross is readily available on ebay and amazon, and it's cheap.  Go get it, it IS worth it - especially at the price you're buying it for.

I'm sick of silent protagonists though, and much like the first game, I can't really hate on the KidxSerge relations because they're just as out of place at times as the Marle and Crono ones.  I never really thought a big bond amongst all of them.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2010, 08:53:15 PM »

[redacted with redaction]

4. The green text in Dice's post freaked my cat the fuck out.

---edit---

Actually...

I suspect the real reason for the backlash against CC is that most of the people going into it had really strong memories of playing CT when they were younger and associated that game fondly with childhood and simply didn't like having something that they perceived as fucking with their childhood.
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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2010, 09:25:43 PM »

---edit---

Actually...

I suspect the real reason for the backlash against CC is that most of the people going into it had really strong memories of playing CT when they were younger and associated that game fondly with childhood and simply didn't like having something that they perceived as fucking with their childhood.

Lets go with this one, shall we?
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« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2010, 10:40:34 PM »

---edit---

Actually...

I suspect the real reason for the backlash against CC is that most of the people going into it had really strong memories of playing CT when they were younger and associated that game fondly with childhood and simply didn't like having something that they perceived as fucking with their childhood.

Lets go with this one, shall we?

I'm actually sad he got rid of the rest, I liked it pre-edit.

Chrono Trigger is a simple game wrapped in a brilliant execution - time travel and it's consequences impacting the future.  Brilliant for that whole "save the world" premise seen in every RPG ever.

CC was received way too harsh.  But, as you say, Square had never really been the best story tellers.  They haven't, and still aren't (remember FF13 narrating it all to you? Not so much as a fucken fresco to explain anything, or something before the main events?  Realistic?  Sure.  Ideal?  They could do better).

Did CTDS sell that bad so as to not even warrant consideration for a new title?
How odd, if there's any game series people would flock to (or, for CC haters, "give a second chance") it's the Chrono series.  Maybe.  Maybe it's too late, and people have moved on.  Damned shame.  I personally thought dimension hopping was a perfect way to not skim on the time travel concept that was already done.
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Kevadu
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« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2010, 10:48:50 PM »

I suspect the real reason for the backlash against CC is that most of the people going into it had really strong memories of playing CT when they were younger and associated that game fondly with childhood and simply didn't like having something that they perceived as fucking with their childhood.

I hate arguments like this because there is no way to disprove it, but that doesn't mean it's right.  Cross has serious issues.  I don't think it's a horrible game or anything and there are a few things it does quite well, but that's no reason to gloss over the problems and attribute all negative sentiments about it to some sort of CT nostalgia.  CC has a confusing and poorly told story, way too many irrelevant characters who join your group for the flimsiest of reasons and are never seen again, and a boring and too easy combat system.  Personally I played CT when it was brand new but for whatever reason I never got around to playing CC until like 2008 or something.  By that time I could barely even remember a lot of the details about CT, let alone how CC fucked with them.  CC fails on its own merits.
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xXMelancholiaXx
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« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2010, 11:05:54 PM »

I had no idea so many people disliked Chrono Cross. This is interesting...
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Ashton
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« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2010, 11:23:29 PM »

I loved Chrono Cross.

Most people who have problems with the story simply didn't understand it.
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« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2010, 11:54:57 PM »

I loved Chrono Cross.

Most people who have problems with the story simply didn't understand it.

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Main_Page.html
props to them.  props to them indeed.
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