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Author Topic: Triggers and Crosses, the wonderful and horrible universe of the Chrono series.  (Read 8794 times)
PotRoast
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« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2010, 11:38:21 PM »

Chrono Trigger is still in the top 5 SNES game most definitely. A fun, light-hearted tale, with some scary twists and turns, and an interesting plot device. It is very much told in a tone appropriate for kids, but for kids of all ages. It's gameplay is simple and intuitive, but fun. The graphics and sound are top notch for SNES games. There's tons of replay value, especially if you do it without a faq. I still remember how excited my friend and I were to discover the Rainbow on our third playthrough.

As for Chrono Cross, I'd still it is a solid game that had much potential to be the kind of sequel everyone wanted, but it bungled quite a bit. Just like CT, CC is a topnotch example of what could be done graphically and sonically on the PSX. The visuals are stunning and varied. The soundtrack one of the system's best. The plot is a patchwork piece though. It seems like it could have been pulled apart and the core of several different and very good games would emerge. Instead what is there works, but leaves us scratching our heads too much. The glut of characters is a well maligned flaw, I'll say no more about it.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2010, 01:44:25 AM »

I'll never understand why people think having more characters is a bad thing.  You have choice!  If you don't like character X, you can use character Y instead!  Like in CT, if you didn't like Lucca you could just suck it because she was the only Fire elemental character and if you needed fire attacks you had to use her(Late game w/ Magus not withstanding).  In CC, if you need a Yellow Elemental character you can pick Mel, Norris, Leah, or any of another 6 or so characters.  It was nearly impossible to not like at least one character of every color.

First person to say it's because of character development gets a big slap in the face as I remind them that CT's cast was pretty piss weak in that department too, outside of Magus, who is technically a secret character.

And since we're talking about music I figured I'd mention pretty much the best song from any PS1 game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3JN0BNi_bM
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kyuusei
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« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2010, 01:47:25 AM »

Having more characters isn't necessarily a bad thing. Look at Suikoden. But in CC, it didn't really benefit either. You could easily take out a good chunk of the playables, not affect the story at all, and still have your choice when you need a certain element. There's so many CC characters that weren't necessary, really.
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« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2010, 02:53:56 AM »

Not to mention that you can only bring two with you at any given time (or three on NG+ runs) with the third slot being taken up by a silent protagonist.

And then switching them out is a pain thanks to the elements system (and can be disastrous if you forget to adjust elements, or more commonly, end up with someone forcing their way into your party without giving you the chance to adjust elements until you backtrack to a earlier savepoint).

At least you don't have to bother leveling them up individually.

Informative Edit:

The only real benefit to this is to make sure that Serge has two lovely ladies at his side at all times (or forming a wall of breasts in NG+). Unfortunately, even that is difficult to do most of the time given how limited your options really are until near the end of the game. (14 people out of 19 pre-body swap (9 of these are female but only 3 count (4 if you choose to fuck Kid for Macha)), 12 (technically 13) completely different people pre-dead sea (only 4 females here but YMMV on Sprigg and Irenes), 11 more pre-second body swap (5 more females but two of them are strictly pedobear turf), and 2 more plus the ones from before the first body swap (at least the 1 female from this comes with no strings attached and is awesome), and that's if you get them as soon as they are available and not screw up). Logistically speaking, you only have one real option for forming a wall 'o' breasts for the better part of the game, and even then you don't even get enough people to form one until late in each period. Additionally the third section is the dragon hunt and there's only one pickpocket in your entire available team at that point (and the only buried treasure is kept below deck if you know what I mean) which means that only on a NG+ can, at least, the pirate have the booty, otherwise you're two-thirds of the way to a total sausagefest. And then there's the mandate of plot for the other times.

Of course nobody gives a shit about this because "I HAVE TWO EINHANZERS BITCHES!!!" Glenn is everybody's first and only choice and the afore mentioned "Gotta' steal them all!" Fargo is essential for the dragon hunt.
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Annubis
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« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2010, 12:21:47 PM »

Of course nobody gives a shit about this because "I HAVE TWO EINHANZERS BITCHES!!!" Glenn is everybody's first and only choice and the afore mentioned "Gotta' steal them all!" Fargo is essential for the dragon hunt.

wow...
THIS
THIS EXACTLY!

Serge, Glenn, Kid
If no Kid available, Serge Glenn, Fargo
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2010, 12:54:11 AM »

Norris and Guile are also top picks to fill out your elemental roster.
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« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2010, 01:25:20 AM »

I-WENT-WITH-GROBYC-MANY-TIMES.
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« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2010, 12:23:25 PM »

I loved Chrono Cross.

Most people who have problems with the story simply didn't understand it.

The hate for Chrono Cross seems a lot like the hate for Legend of Mana.

People wanted 3D versions of SNES games (CT and SOM) and when they didn't get what they were expecting, they whined and bitched.

Count me as another one who prefers Cross over Trigger.

I like Trigger, but as a game, it is way, way, way overhyped.
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« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2010, 03:21:28 PM »

Norris and Guile are also top picks to fill out your elemental roster.

Haha I liked Norris too, not many seem to either.
I usually stuck it out with Riddel's magic, but she was an alternate.  I kept Glen around whenever I could.  Kinda hard to go to a GREATGODDAMNCHARACTER to anyone else speaking a lot of the roster sticks...
I liked using Viper for some reason, as well.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2010, 05:27:31 PM »

Viper and Riddel arn't bad choices for party members at all.  The main drawback is that Norris has a better balance in his MAG/ATK over Viper who's mostly ATK-based(And thus Norris has better overall usefulness and survivability in late-game), and Riddel is White-aligned meaning she's competing with Serge for a party slot, and considering that Serge NEEDS to be present and he's one of the best characters in the game already, that's not a good position to be in.

Of course, this is all from my munchikin view of the game, where I had to min/max everything all the time, so YMMV.
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« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2010, 07:10:05 PM »

Viper and Riddel arn't bad choices for party members at all.  The main drawback is that Norris has a better balance in his MAG/ATK over Viper who's mostly ATK-based(And thus Norris has better overall usefulness and survivability in late-game), and Riddel is White-aligned meaning she's competing with Serge for a party slot, and considering that Serge NEEDS to be present and he's one of the best characters in the game already, that's not a good position to be in.

Of course, this is all from my munchikin view of the game, where I had to min/max everything all the time, so YMMV.

I liked Riddel's special-skills (she was later replaced with the similar, however blue innate, Lenna). HP restores are always welcomed, and same with reviving element uses.

I don't know why I stuck Viper on, he usually performed alright, and I like the look of him.  Same with Norris (not too typcail JRPG looking, Norris could actually qualify for an Aryan Nazi Commando look!!).  I hated the man's accuracy, proved a thorn at the best of times. =/

...truthfully, in the end, I found the game way too short to really want or be able to get acquainted with many characters - added that half of them aren't that really good.

I've always admired Tales games for keeping a relatively decent balance on "good" characters, each were wonderfully unique (heh, though only 6 to choose in Abyss).  At least these bad characters (even in Suiko's and Cross) were extremely easy to fish out.
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« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2010, 08:37:02 PM »

Here's the biggest issue I have with both CT and CC.

I'm less enamored with the games themselves than I am with the circumstances in which I got them. Chrono Cross is always going to remind me of dogshows and setting up fair booths for my 4H club, and getting ice cream afterward. And late August rains, and of going to my grandparent's house by the lake, back when the lake wasn't toxic, during a (still rainy day) garage sale, back when my grandpa was still alive and my grandma wasn't completely unbearable. And rain. The way that the world outside your window always feels extremely green right after a gentle rain shower. That's what I associate with Dream of the Shore Bordering Another World.

And Chrono Trigger... Coming home from a trip out west. To the Badlands, to Mt. Rushmore, to Wall Drug. The Corn Palace. An endless drive through Iowa and all the errata and flotsam from a past that I don't really remember because I never lived through it. And the Mall of America. I got my copy of CT at a Funcoland back at the Mall of America, when Funcolands were still around. Coming home, late at night, around three in the morning if I'm remembering correctly. Feeling a bit of panic when the game didn't load right at first, then relief when it did (after blowing on the pins, of course). Loading up an old save file from someone who had played up to the Undersea Palace. Then starting my own game.

And hearing the sounds of seagulls and fireworks.

For me, I guess, the mental connections are more important than the games themselves.

And it's funny. I played CT for the first time when I was 11. The trip out west was the family's summer vacation after 5th grade, for me. CC came out a year later. I didn't have much of a gap between playing the games. I think most people playing CC did have more of a gap, there.
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« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2010, 04:51:10 AM »

Norris and Guile are also top picks to fill out your elemental roster.

Mechanically speaking Guile sucks until the late into the game due to his utter lack of low level element slots and his unavailibity along with everyone else in your first party. Plus Leena and Razzly are also available during the same period that he is and without his caveats. Hell you can get Leena before Guile and Razzly is the statistically best magician in the game and is a member of one of the two triple techs in the game (although getting her means forsaking DOUBLE EINHANZERS!!! Glenn which is unacceptable for a lot of people, especially the min/maxing types). And Guile isn't even your only Black party member for this period thanks to Skully and Luccia (and Pip kinda).

Norris on the other hand is awesome early on. Especially, if you can get Starky's special gun early on.

Additionally there is "THERE IS NO NEED TO SHOUT!" ZOAH. Although Leah surpasses him and every other Yellow innate in pretty much everything (except in summoning a dragon out of hammerspace to do a dive bombing elbow drop from or fighting with a motherfucking anchor sword).


I loved Chrono Cross.

Most people who have problems with the story simply didn't understand it.

The hate for Chrono Cross seems a lot like the hate for Legend of Mana.

People wanted 3D versions of SNES games (CT and SOM) and when they didn't get what they were expecting, they whined and bitched.

This is not entirely true. My biggest issues with LoM is the fact that it is the most ridiculously deep in certain aspects (namely tempering) side scrolling brawler since River City Ransom, but that both fights and exploration by extension became incredibly tedious in a hurry since combat was among the mechanics that weren't that deep (basic combos are by far the most effective things going and specials are only good for the invincibility frames, everything else was superfluous), enemies could easily scale to far beyond what you could possibly reach (especially in any difficulty mode not named normal since LoM's idea of Difficulty=Much More HP), and battles respawned as soon as you left the room. Additionally, many dungeons reused the same room design repeatedly (with only objects added to block exits the designers didn't want you to take) which also served to make exploration confusing and painful as fuck (moreso on later quests when you had to find a new path that didn't exist before now that the block has been moved).

The tl;dr is that everything about LoM was good except the gameplay and the need for a guide. Similarly everything was good in CC except the plot and character redundancy.
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Gen Eric Gui
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« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2010, 10:28:21 AM »

Well, the biggest issue with White/Black characters is that they are ALWAYS competing with Serge's party slot; it's actually a pretty mediocre/poor choice to use them at any point until you have the ability to remove Serge, at which point Guile is actually very good with all his high-level elements.
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« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2010, 09:43:38 AM »

Two crazy ideas.

1. Chrono Trigger's plot didn't really make much more sense than CC's if you actually think about it.

2. If CT and CC had plots that DID make sense nobody would still be talking about them.
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